8mm Forum: Film Collecting

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Topic: Film Collecting

Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005

posted July 23, 2008 03:05 AM

Film Collecting

I thought I’d write a topic about the supply and demand of Super 8 film and 16mm and 35mm film.

From talking to a lot of people from different walks off life. That at one time in their life was collecting film.

I have noticed a large trend that people tend to trust the film dealers of this world. I find very surprising that films cost so much money even second hand these days.

From the discussions I have had with people who have been collecting for many years. 16mm prints have now gone through the roof in relation to price. Many years ago you would pay about £50 pounds for a feature second hand or at tops for a film that is collectable £150 at the most even if it was Technicolor or LPP.

This actually applies to 35mm film as well. But it seems supply and demand has hiked the price up considerably.

For 16mm features these are not being made as far as I am aware for current official releases so the supply and demand for prints in this format have just recently gone through the roof.

Super 8 where are all the NEW features gone?

Also there has been a general better understanding and awareness on how films stocks actually hold up. Back in the late 80s early nineties we was not really bothered what film stock it was printed on. Because basically back then prints looked as good as they did when first printed.

It has come as a real shame that people do not understand the real value of films and that with the help of ebay and the likes of film dealers most prices have now gone through the roof in the last 10-15 years.

So the only way you can get films that are not at inflated prices are through people who are generally getting out of film all together for one reason or another.

In this current Credit Crunch situation, how can people afford films in the future if we don’t do something about it now?

[ July 23, 2008, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: Robert Tucker ]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 23, 2008 05:34 AM

It is true that 16mm prices have gone up. Features have never been officially available for sale. The big problem with collecting 16mm is that most prints are now getting long in the tooth. Scratched, warped, many joins, always lost leaders. If you buy 16mm it's best to see them beforehand at Film Fairs. That way you know what you are buying.

In comparison Super 8 has never been cheaper (in relation to wages, etc.) I don't include the sellers on eBay who seem to think that just because the film is old it's worth a lot of money. Film collectors should be very cautious of eBay. I say, trust the well-known dealers, or otherwise one day they won't be there.

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Maurice

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted July 23, 2008 07:18 AM

Robert, I dont think 16mm prices have gone up. You can still find a bargain providing you dont mind low budget british or american movies everybodys forgotten about. Only last year I bought a Leon Errol 16mm feature 'Wot no girls' for only £30 from Tony Hutchinson. It did have some print damage, but Tony had several 16mm features all for £30. A year further back I bought another british feature for £30 from another stall and this was perfect.

Film prices (super 8 and 16mm) depend on the film. If you want 'Star Wars' you pay top money, if you want some very low budget unknown horror movie you can get it cheap.

Graham S

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted July 23, 2008 07:25 AM

Graham is spot on; what ebay has done is highlight how much we are prepared to pay for top quality films in good condition, this influences the dealers too.

It has also shown that faded prints and those that are common and not top titles have fallen dramatically in price. Remember in the 1980's when used Super 8 lists often had films of the same length at the same price!

David

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Mark Williams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 846
From: West Sussex
Registered: Mar 2007

posted July 23, 2008 08:08 AM

Yes I agree with Graham too,The dealers naturally have to sell for a realistic price,if a 8mm mint unfaded feature length print of STAR WARS comes into there hands then it will fetch an above average selling price.

Cheers Mark W

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 23, 2008 09:14 AM

Graham says that providing you don't mind low budget British or American movies that everybody has forgotten then he considers that 16mm prices have not gone up.

He mentions buying prints that had some damage. There's always been a chance of a bargain if you are willing to spend some time on the bench with your CIR.

Over the years I have bought many films from Tony and have always paid good money for collectable titles. He specialises in black & white British films and can nearly always offer some gems.

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Maurice

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 23, 2008 10:28 AM

Prices haven't gone up that much -- and in fact they've come down for a lot of stuff...

I question the idea that top Techicolor prints EVER went for low prices --- for instance I paid several thousand dollars for a rare IB in the early 1990s....

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 23, 2008 10:57 AM

All good points. Prints will only sell for higher prices is the demand is there. As a collector (and now dealer in Optical sound super 8, as a collector sent me his whole collection and I'm auctioning them all off on ebay, that's the reason for all the titles listed these days by me), I have seen many a optical sound super 8 title have brilliant color, and yet, because there really isn't any demand, they go for 30.00 dollars or less! (15 pounds!) I paid 21.00 pounds for Futureworld from Derann, for petes sake, and it's a brilliant print.

There's another factor, however, and we are ALL guilty of this, and it's understandable.

They have been a part of our collections for, perhaps, twenty or more years, and we paid top dollar for those films, and now, we want what we paid for them, (or pretty darn close), and we just won't sell if we don't get what we want for them.

But it all comes down to what the market will allow.

I think another factor is that most of us long time collectors nearly have everything we have desired. I know that my collection is pretty much done except for the odd cartoon short or optical sound super 8 that pops up. Now, I'm really a small potato's collector with meager funds, so it makes me leap through the roof when I can buy "Phantom of the Opera" for 25.00 dollars american, and if it wasn't for ebay and people who don't realize what they have, that i wouldn't have the collection that I have.

But, once again, perhaps these sellers would love over a hundred for "Phantom", but they are realistic, and know that it probably wouldn't seel for that.

So I really feel sorry for fellow collectors, fine fellows all, who will want far more more than I can realisticly pay for a feature. There are a few fellows of our great forum that have a few opticals that I would drool over to have, but at 150.00 or so a pop, (american), well, with a baby and other demands, I know that I have to be realistic and say no, but I understand thier pain, as they want a decent amount for thier prints ...

... but the market, just won't support thier prices.

I hate to say that the golden era has long past for Super 8, but it shines some though.

The prices from dealers are a little hard to swallow at times. I remember buying a print of Hoppity from a U.K. seller, who said that "it's the best print that I have seen of this title" ..

Well, he must have seen nothing but gawd-awful prints, as the print was from mediocre color to downright bad. That was 100.00 dollars american. I then, just three months later, bought my two prints that I now have of Hoppity from Steve Osbourne (Agfa and L.P.P.) of Hoppity for 75.00 dollars American, for both and they are brilliant!

This is not to completely diss the dealers. I personally think that Super 8 does far better in the U.K. than over here and so they can desire and get a higher price for thier features, which we americans end up paying double for because of our blasted poor dollar (and getting worse all the time!)

I have noticed the 16MM prices spiking some right now, however.
With Derann quality on Super 8, why go 16MM haha!!

(Now I'll hear from the 16MM collectors!)

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 23, 2008 11:58 AM

Good one, Osi.

Let's face it. Any item, whether it's a film, projector, or even a second-hand car, is only worth what a purchaser will pay for it.

--------------------
Maurice

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted July 23, 2008 04:36 PM

I didnt think that 16mm has gone up in price. More that it had stayed the same. The point that I was trying to make is that not all films high priced, as put in the original post. If you take a close look in sales lists there are some bargains to be had. Yes the blockbuster films are high priced but these are very wanted titles and can command such a price. Super 8 is just the same.

If 16mm had gone up then mabye 16mm is selling more?

And like I said there will be more interest in a LPP print of Jedi than in a British lion film from the 30's. There are collectors of the latter but these people are a bit poorer and the dealers know if they stick a £200 price tag on it it wont sell. There are many factors which affect the price such as film title, condition and rariety. But I think the title is the most important. A Mint LPP copy of a low budget european film with forgettable actors would never sell for more than a good copy of 'Grease' with a slight pink tint.

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted July 23, 2008 07:09 PM

On the subject of 35mm; the real collectable items (scope IB tech clips, shorts, features etc) used to appear in good numbers in the Big Reel in the early - mid 1980's and now is very hard to find. Prices were high back then, but at least these items came up.

They are all out there in collections and hardly ever come up.

I sold some of my TODD-AO 70mm trailers a few years ago and they brought in really big prices. Rare and not seen often, other collectors were after them.

David

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