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Author Topic: A issue on all Viacom Feature S8S prints?
Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted June 29, 2012 02:18 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 3 Feature prints in S8 Sound from Viacom (now Paramount). Every 400' reel was filled to the brim which is never a good idea. And every reel except the last one has black sound striped leader at the end which has been sloppily spliced on instead of the original leader from the negative. Anyone else noticed this?

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: United States
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- posted June 29, 2012 08:23 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Joe, It sounds like your films were put on larger reels, then put back on the 400 footers later. That would account for the spliced leaders(?)and tails. I've seen some Viacom features that originally came on six 400' reels and are now on five reels because of this. That might account for the full reels you mention. Just a thought....

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Joe Taffis

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Pasquale DAlessio
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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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- posted June 29, 2012 08:39 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hate over filed reels. When I have that happen I transfer the films to 600'. [Wink]

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted June 30, 2012 12:14 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only the Tail leaders were spliced on. The Head leaders are splice free. I have 2 prints of the same title and they both have the same issue!

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: United States
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- posted June 30, 2012 08:38 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whoever did it must have wanted those tails to use as leaders on other films....but more to your question, I don't think it is an issue with ALL Viacom features.

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Joe Taffis

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted June 30, 2012 09:15 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, just speaking of all super 8 features, I must confess that I am of the "fraternity" of overfilling reels, most of the time, 400ft, (though occasionally 600ft over full as well), but I never really thought of them as being overfull.

That's an intersting quetion, actually, what would one consider over-full? Personally, I don't mind three cartoons on one 400ft, even if they come nearly to the brim.

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Charleston, SC, USA
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- posted June 30, 2012 11:48 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One reel has a splice in the Head Leader which was no doubt caused by the reel being overfilled. Considering what the prints sold for when new, you would think Viacom would have used 600' reels. And its Polyester stock, so its more than 400' to be sure! Its too risky to have reels filled to the brim and I also dislike it.

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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- posted July 01, 2012 06:00 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a copy of dont give up the ship, all leaders appear to be original and not spliced on, the reels are full but not overflowing, have to say the print is excellent to.

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Joe Taffis
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From: United States
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- posted July 01, 2012 06:28 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, According to Ron Knorr of RED FOX FILMS everything was put out on 400' reels back then because that was the capacity size for most projectors being sold at the time.

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Joe Taffis

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Pasquale DAlessio
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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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- posted July 01, 2012 07:47 AM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe

That makes the most sense. This would broaden the sales quite a bit back then. As you say, most projectors had a 400' capacity. If they did put the films on larger reels that would have limited sale. Buyers would have had to remoungt tilms on smaller reels making the cost of the film higher.

PatD

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted July 01, 2012 09:18 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Passquale and Joe ar correct.

That is, for the original "heyday " of super 8. "Super 8 : PHASE 2 ... The Derann Years" (there's a snappy title!), as when the super 8 distributors starting doing the 600ft reel distribution.

However, the old guard was already thinking in those regards, Universal 8 being the most prominent, as, they were already ,making they're two part digests just long enough to be spliced together to make one full 600ft digest, and I think that was they're thinking all along.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 01, 2012 10:46 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to chuck in a spanner,Derann sold many of their features
with splices in,and Derek Simmonds made the point,that's
how it is, if you got a splice in your film,it was through the lab
and he would not change the print! Variety is the splice of life Joe.

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Allan Broadfield
Master Film Handler

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From: Bromley, Kent
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- posted July 01, 2012 12:17 PM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many labs professionally distributed their release prints with stock joins, back in the day, though it was frowned on.

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted July 01, 2012 03:05 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Splices are only at the end where the Tail Leader was attached. The prints all came from different sellers, so naturally I thought they were sold that way. Doesn't make sense that the lab would do it since the original Tail Leader in the negative would have worked. The problem is Viacom not cutting the reels apart sooner in the printing negative. And you can tell where the reel originally ended as you see a splice in the picture frame. The reels are so full that only the box keeps the film from spilling off. Naturally, I plan on mounting them on larger reels. The most interesting thing about the Viacom prints is that because Television negatives were used, the Paramount logo is not on many of the titles. Unfortunately, it causes the end title music to end abruptly then you see the Viacom logo. Of course now that Viacom owns Paramount, the logo is there on the DVD releases. At least the Viacom prints have nice quality and many still have decent color.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 01, 2012 03:27 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Can't argue with that Joe,the prints of their features like "Charly"
"Straw Dogs" and "African Queen" have held up,unfortunately
I have put them onto larger spools,although I'll check the ends
of the reels for splices,not that it bothers me,as they haven't
been any trouble.A print I would have liked of theirs was the
mistakenly titled "Krakatoa,East of Java".

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted July 01, 2012 04:04 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hugh, some of those titles were ABC Films releases which were all edited. But they had good quality as well. As far as I know Viacom had nothing to do with those titles. By the way, one title that supposedly does have the original logos is the Viacom release "Last Train From Gun Hill" complete with the VistaVision logo. Not sure though as I don't own the film. But while the features hold their color well the digests do not. A different lab must have been used for the digests. I don't know who printed the Viacom features, but I suspect it was either Technicolor or Triangle.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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- posted July 01, 2012 05:25 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Forgive me Joe,you're absolutely right.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted July 02, 2012 01:51 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Viacom "African Queen" and though on eastman stock, the color is spot on. However, I keep it in cold storage, to be safe.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

- posted July 03, 2012 08:00 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
My pint is okay too Osi,and that just takes it's chances with the
rest of them in my little dream dungeon.

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