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Author Topic: GS1200 - Never a dull moment
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 09, 2015 12:27 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last night I ran about an hour of film through one of my GS1200's, and everything was fine. Then, after about a 30 minute shut down, I loaded up another reel and switched the power on, and the heat filter started vibrating in and out with a very loud knocking noise. At the same time the projector refused to go into a forward, or reverse, running mode. I powered up and down several times and the problem refused to go away. So I went to bed assuming I had a major repair job ahead of me. [Frown]
This morning I powered the projector back up, and now all is fine again!
Never a dull moment with these tempramental machines! [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 09, 2015 12:31 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Phew!! That was a close shave Paul. Glad everything is back to normal on it for you today though, even if this did lead to a sleepless night for you [Eek!]

All of these machines at 30+ years old now, tend to have a mind of their own and occasionally have a melt down just like pensioners of the human variety. [Big Grin]

We all have to have sleepless nights on occasions now in this crazy hobby of ours sadly, I know I've had my fair share up until recently. (fingers and everything else well and truly crossed)

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 09, 2015 01:00 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Andrew, some GS1200 owners have compared owning one of these machines as being like maintaining a highly tuned sports car. I think a more accurate comparison would be "a highly strung race horse"! [Big Grin]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted March 09, 2015 01:45 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, I would be more surprised if you didn't use the GS so much and then switched it on and got that reaction. To know you use it like I do, is more of a concern. These kind of intermittent faults are harder to find too, I would prefer it to stay like that and at least then you can get a result at the end. As you say much like owning a classic sports car, or anything with mechanical bits moving or electronics parts, they can and will eventually go wrong. I would be very interested to see what the outcome is, and what if anything you find might have been the cause.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 09, 2015 04:19 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I just hope it stays as is right now for you Paul.
As much as I really don't mind repairing these machines when forced to do so, I have to admit my pet hate is unreliability in any machine be it a car or a washing machine or dare I say it...a projector.

I much prefer routine preventative maintenance work on my machines than having to stomach repairs too often. You're heart is always in your mouth I find given their age and how much we value them.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted March 09, 2015 05:36 PM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow -- the more I hear about the experiences with the GS-1200, the more I'm glad I have ST-1200 projectors. Honestly, when I've watched films on friends' GS-1200s, I don't see or hear any discernible difference compared to ST-1200s.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 09, 2015 05:45 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
While I am not a huge fan of either of the machines you mention John for a number of reasons, I have to say a ST1200 is a million miles away from the GS1200 when it comes to performance, sophistication and capability.

The crude drive chain mechanism alone is enough to put most people off an ST1200 I would have thought. Half the time, on anything other than a near new machine, you simply cannot switch reliably between 18fps and 24fps without causing some form of mechanical drive problem..usually slippage from the awful clutch arrangement.. and that is just for starters.

They are what they are the ST1200's. A model originally designed in the late 60's then followed a series of add ons during the 70's without addressing the main issues. Things electronically driven came a long way in the decade that followed hence microprocessor control etc etc.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Jonathan Trevithick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 569
From: Gold Coast Australia
Registered: May 2012


 - posted March 10, 2015 03:24 AM      Profile for Jonathan Trevithick   Email Jonathan Trevithick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I love my GS1200 and it has performed almost faultlessly in the 2 years i've owned it. The only problem i've had is the optical sound which has now given up on me altogether.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 10, 2015 06:56 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IMO Jonathan the optical sound design of the GS1200 leaves a whole lot to be desired. On my machine it barely works at all, and it is not difficult to see why.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 10, 2015 07:03 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford   Email Gary Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have owned elmo 1200HD's since I bought my first one brand new in the mid 70's. They are indeed reliable machines. Arm them with a faster lens, f1.1 or f1.0 and the very best bulbs, hook their monitor left and right outputs into an amp with good speakers....and you will have a machine that can come close to the GS, especially with screens less than 9 or ten feet wide.

That said, the Gs's I own, also armed with f1.0 lenses..and the best bulbs, designed for super 8 apetures, will provide a brighter picture for larger presentations. I use the 1200Hd's for my booth at home...and the Gs's for larger venues, the local library and outdoor shows.

HOWEVER....for the electronically challenged like myself...when the GS misbehaves, there's not much the novice can do about it. But when the 1200hd's or standard 1200's misbehave, even a person like me can go in there, fiddle around with belts and pulleys and such and generally get them running again.

When I give large screen shows with super 8, I use the GS's, BUT I ALWAYS TAKE A SPARE 1200HD WITH ME AS A BACKUP. Like I say, you can get VERY high performance out of 1200HD's when they are well adjusted and have the faster lenses and better bulbs.
I love em both.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 10, 2015 02:42 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It's a mono machine at the end of the day Gary. The two green 3.5mm mono output sockets on the HD model (which is the only way to feed separately the balance and main tracks into an external stereo amplifier) have a ridiculously low output level to feed any kind of decent signal into a separate external amplifier without huge amounts of hum and other noise, so I would be really interested in hearing how you get the soundtrack to rival the GS on a true stereo print?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 10, 2015 08:21 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Still working! [Smile]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 11, 2015 10:18 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Good stuff Paul!! [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted March 11, 2015 10:57 AM      Profile for Jon Addams   Email Jon Addams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe that the GS-1200 was designed as an income earner for Elmo's repair technicians. I have an ST-1200 M/O with a 1.0 lens that would not trade for any GS-1200.

Jon

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 11, 2015 11:12 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Which just goes to show Jon, we all have different ideas and opinions based on our experiences with these different machines.

Personally, I have no real desire to own either of them, if I had to pick one of them though, only a GS1200 would be able to satisfy my needs from a projector.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2015 12:43 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I talked to Leon this morning. Even though the projector is working fine right now it still has one issue of seconary importance, namely that in reverse projection the film is not being taken up on the top feed spool. Leon tells me that this is a problem with one of the relays, the smaller relay that controls the front spool shaft motor. This involves pulling out the main board which is a tedious job, but I have done it before, many years ago, when I replaced the rear relay that controls the rear take up motor.
I am hoping that the heat filter probem, which has now gone away, is associated with this front relay problem, so that replacing the relay may solve both issues.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted March 11, 2015 01:52 PM      Profile for Jon Addams   Email Jon Addams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"Personally, I have no real desire to own either of them, if I had to pick one of them though, only a GS1200 would be able to satisfy my needs from a projector."
I agree Andrew, I don't particularly care for either one of them BUT on the Elmo line, I love the ST-1200 M/O with the 1.0 lens.

My main projector is the 708EL which I bought (2 of them) on September 26, 1980. I use them regularly and they have never given me any major problems.

quote:
"I am hoping that the heat filter problem, which has now gone away, is associated with this front relay problem, so that replacing the relay may solve both issues."
Hello Paul,

That solution may solve both issues. However, chances are something else may "pop-up" once those issues are solved. In my opinion, Murphy's Law was written for the Elmo 1200 GS [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

Jon

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 11, 2015 02:10 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I get exactly what you are saying Jon, after all you only have to look at the number of posts on forums and the huge amount of different problems associated with the GS 1200 to realize they are extremely prone to problems and reliability issues in general.

I would have thought though, by now, with all those micro switches changed out for new, all those capacitors changed or uprated, all those relays changed for more reliable modern ones.. that things for a well looked after and serviced one, would settle down somewhat.

After all you don't hear of too many motors failing on them or magnetic heads that need changing etc etc.

It all seems to be the electro mechanical stuff including switches and piano keys etc.

BTW Jon, as you have owned your two 708's since 1980, have you had to change any magnetic heads on either of those two yet?

[ March 11, 2015, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2015 03:02 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew has hit on one of the GS1200'S greatest virtues - the sound heads. Manufactured from a magnetic alloy called Sendust, the heads of the GS seem indestructible. This, more than any other factor, may enable the GS1200 to outlive all other projectors. All the other stuff is fixable, even if it may eventually demands improvisation.
With the work being done by Edmond Van Eck and others, the life of the GS and many other machines may be extended significantly, but only as long as the heads hang in.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 11, 2015 03:36 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Edwin is also looking deeply into trying to supply or restore some of the mag heads that DO wear including the much sought after Woelke 464 variety that cover many models.

If he pulls this one off, it will be his best work yet IMHO.

I part dismantled a worn head this afternoon and they appear to me to be very repairable if someone could manufacture just the Alloy Metal contact parts that wear.

I will try to post some photos soon of this miniature assembly for the benefit of an explanation and so Edwin can see more clearly what would be required but it certainly does not appear beyond the realms of possibility to me for these to be refurbished.

Here's hoping.

[ March 11, 2015, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2015 07:31 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If Edwin can find a way to refurb Eumig and other heads, I am sure he will have a ready market amongst the collectors on this forum.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 11, 2015 07:38 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Not just Eumig Paul, though I have highlighted this for us all Paul... You would be surprised, I am sure, just how much the Woelke head is in demand in Europe!

The likes of You, Steve, Paul & Me and many others can all do this, we just need to find a precision Engineering company with multi function CNC manufacturing capability, then plough some hard earned into the venture, then we secure our passion for the hobby for a long while into the future yet!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 18, 2015 02:36 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leon shipped me a new front relay today. Now comes the fun part........... [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 18, 2015 02:36 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
All in the wonderful game Paul! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Wink]

Let us know how you get along buddy, but I am certain all will be fine in your most capable of hands. [Smile]

[ March 18, 2015, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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