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Author Topic: New sound heads: Mission Impossible
Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted January 15, 2018 05:58 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I'm looking for a new projector dedicated exclusively for stereo recording, I've found that it's nearly impossible to find new sound heads for most projectors, with the exception of Beaulieu ones.

This is quite dramatic, because our projectors will be useless for decent sound reproduction in a short time. A true sword of Damocles over them.

What do you think about this problem? Do you think there will be a solution for it in the future?

--------------------
Marc

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 16, 2018 03:28 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I could be wrong here but i think new sound heads are still available for the Bauer T610 but there not cheap.
I myself have yet to have a projector where the heads have worn out but we never record,
unless i am wrong, if a projector is constantly used for recording then this will eventually take it out of the heads. Please correct me if i am wrong
[Wink]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 16, 2018 03:43 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Might be worth buying a couple to pop on the shelf.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/CK-841- Uher-Wiedergabekopf-Super-8-Projektor-Tonkopf-Ersatzteil-W63/122855019746?hash=item1c9abad4e2:g:eaoAAOSwDEtaLkOr

https://www.ebay.de/itm/CK-841-R-Uher-Aufnahme-Wiedergabekopf-Super-8-Projektor-Tonkopf-W62/122855015267?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49132%26meid%3Da31 301f6c70c40aeab5b1a71125f5e7a%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122855019746&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Best Mark.

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted January 16, 2018 05:59 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, they use to say that recording wear out the sound heads, but it's because of the constant "play-stop-rewind-stop-play..." operations associated with old recording techniques. Both with playing or recording, the second channel wears out faster.

Mark, do you know for what projectors are the sound heads on your links?

--------------------
Marc

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 16, 2018 06:35 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would guess Bauers ? maybe, they seem to have a few.

If I was staying with 8mm I would buy 2 at least just to have them at that price.

Best Mark.

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted January 16, 2018 07:13 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe that Bauer sound heads were the same as Beaulieu projectors, which are much more expensive, but perhaps I'm wrong.

And now that we're at it, does someone know where to find new sound head replacements for the Braun Visacustic 2000?

https://imgur.com/a/L6FbR

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Marc

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 16, 2018 07:32 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Magnetic sound heads cannot be that complicated. I wish Edwin Van Eck would re-engineer the Eumig 800 and 900 heads.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted January 17, 2018 08:58 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Recording does not wear the heads more than playback; wear is just due to stripe contact (magnetic stripe being abrasive). The heads linked to this thread are not for the Bauers (Woelke manufactured them); I guess these are for Noris projectors. Bauers and Beaulieu: same heads. Braun: impossible to find (to the best of my knowledge)... But the do look like Eumig Series 900 heads at least in part; maybe Eumig supplied them to Braun who then modified them and housed them in their own head mount.

BTW Eumig heads were made in-house, the machine was sold off to Silma/Bauer and was moved to Italy; evidence of this is projector model 931 (made by SIlma but badged as Eumig) do have Eumig's heads. Probably the Bauer company were seeking a way to build their own heads instead of buying them from Woelke. What happened to the machine to build them is a mistery. Some people refer it was scraped other say it was sold by the kilo to salvagers; fact is traces were lost by the mid-80's.... If only the people at the Eumig Museum still had the blueprints for these heads, perhaps someone might still be able to manufacture them. Anybody in Austria might pay a visit the them? I know they still have the official documents with dozens and dozens of patents.... And they are very nice people.

--------------------
Maurizio

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted January 17, 2018 10:40 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A general lack of new magnetic soundheads for 8mm projectors.

One other reason I am sticking to 16mm Optical sound.
Plenty spare exciter lamps still around for these. [Smile]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 17, 2018 11:18 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
39 years in and so far, (as we use the projectors for viewing only & not recording), we have never worn out a sound head and the volume of my Elmos on Both tracks is 100% perfect, And yes i use a projector most nights of the week but these days the 8mm is having a well earned rest while we work our way through the 16mm. And hopefully more on the way.

[ January 17, 2018, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]

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David Roberts
Master Film Handler

Posts: 405
From: Suffolk. England
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted January 17, 2018 12:57 PM      Profile for David Roberts   Email David Roberts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use 3 studioline series Bauers,and so far,no signs of soundhead issues. if I did have any such problems,would probably look to replace the entire machine,rather than trying to fit new heads,even if available.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 17, 2018 03:23 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think i would probably do the same David, then keep the old machine as spares, assuming it was replaced with the same model [Wink]

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted January 17, 2018 04:49 PM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurizio, thanks a lot for the clarification. Sad to hear that about the Visacustic sound heads. It's my favourite projector [Frown]

David and Tom, I don't find practical to replace a good working projector when the sound heads go bad. Projectors are not infinite and if we could exchange the heads it would be a much better solution.

And yes, the Elmo's heads are build to last. But it won't be forever anyway!

--------------------
Marc

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted January 17, 2018 05:41 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right Marc: the sound heads on those Elmo machines seem to have been made to last forever; they are definitely in a different league. I heard of many people claiming they have never had to replace them. As for me I have used the GS 1200 since 2005 and never had any issues with the heads. Which - BTW - ara made of a peculiar magnetic alloy called Sendust, based on silicon and other stuff whose magnetic properties exceed permalloys's (the other alloy favoured by the industry) as well as its duration. Same goes for Sankyo's heads (and clones thereof) which I am not sure what type of alloy are made of. Indeed I once had to replace heads on my Stereo 800 but nonethelss I have never had to replace them again ever since. Second best, I would say....

--------------------
Maurizio

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted January 18, 2018 01:15 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Getting a spare sound head for the Fumeo 9119 machine is also a lost cause, I wonder if any of those heads on the de. ebay site would be any good, at that price might be worth a try....

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2018 01:53 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can order new heads for the 9119 in Mono Or Stereo through Photovox in Italy.

email is:

info (at) photovoxtech.it

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted January 18, 2018 03:48 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How old is the info Alan, I tried one two places never even got a reply...
just checked my emails from 2017 sent one to this company, no reply.....

[ January 18, 2018, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: Paul Browning ]

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted January 18, 2018 08:36 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Maurizio. Perhaps the time has come to buy an Elmo GS-1200. Do you know if Ugo still sell his refurbished models? It would be the best solution in the long term, I think.

--------------------
Marc

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2018 09:05 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul,
I received this reply on Sept. 22nd of last year.

"Thank you very much for your kind request.
We can produce magnetic heads for SUPER 8 projectors.
See attached the data sheet for code 4683.
If this head suits you I will proceed with an offer, including lead time and
freight charges to USA.
Kind Regards"

You can also Phone them as they have replied in english.

PHOTOVOX TECHNOLOGY SRL
Via Caluso 35
10035 Mazzé (TO)

TEL: +39 011 9835322

As far as a "new" Ugo GS1200 I doubt that will happen. Ugo has left this hobby from what he told me thus no new posts. He now has a new "hobby"-Alfa Romeo Montreal! He is probably rebuilding one as we speak. Shame too since he was so knowledgable about the GS1200. He took the GS down to the frame and to the last screw and then rebuilt it from the ground up. Probably the last machine ever sold that was like new except for the GS Xenon rebuild that Desmond here did as well.
And I have heard from Leon Norris that the heads of the GS1200 almost never wear out. Its everything else you have to worry about! [Smile]

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted January 18, 2018 10:04 AM      Profile for Marc Marti   Email Marc Marti   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Alan. That's too bad! Ugo is an absolute master of the GS-1200. Also, I learned from him how to make perfect splices in Super-8 and I use his technique since then.

BTW, that message from Photovox sounds like "we can build sound heads for any projector". Well, dreaming is free [Smile]

--------------------
Marc

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2018 10:17 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes right? If only! But I specifically asked for Fumeo projectors so...
Now if only Kodak would create a new Super 8 Projector to go with their new camera....

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1006
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted January 18, 2018 10:45 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just don't get it Alan. My email was dated the 19th sept 2017 just a few days before you, and I got no response, sorry to labour the point but who did you send the email to, someone specific, or general enquires ?, thanks Alan.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2018 11:16 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul,
PM sent.

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