8mm Forum: Not a Horror Story, But a Good Warning.

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Topic: Not a Horror Story, But a Good Warning.

Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted November 27, 2007 07:54 PM

Hello All,

Well, the wife's out, I'm having a drink and putting on "King Kong" reel 2, just for a casual 'let's see what it looks like now', "now" being on my newly acquired Eiki Xenon 3500. The print is, honestly, quite overloaded on the second '2000 reel, but it has played fine previously. So, off we go to Skull Island again, and it looks better than ever.

I am wandering about a bit, and as we get to the final Empire State minutes, I get up and get another beer.
I am (of course) in the kitchen when I hear that unique swishing sound only anyone who has ever run film knows what is: a reel un-spooling. In I run, to see that 'Kong' now is rapidly being loaded onto on my rug, not from a broken splice, but from the take-up reel.

So, with regrets to the Xenon bulb, I shut down hard, with no fan cooling possible this time.
The film is fine, as in, on the floor, lightly but persistently coiled around itself, and I gently un-wind it from the payout reel after putting a piece of tape across the full reel to prevent further loops. I rewind, and all ends well.

But when I rewind, I realize what caused this. The 2000-ft. (purchased from new) plastic take-up reel has had some flange issues lately, where, in the beginning, it will scrape somewhat, but then, with the mass of film, it will quiet down and run just fine. Not tonight.

The reel, towards the end of the film, combined with the gentle take-up torque this machine is set for, has started 'floating' a layer of film on the reel, and is then laying the reminder of the movie on top ever closer to the rim until overspill starts. And why did it ultimately happen?

Because I wasn't there every second.

Because I kept using a reel that told me it needed the flanges propped up so they would be straight next time. Or, perhaps, needed to be thrown away.

Because the gentle take-up torque and the reel combined with an overloaded print altogether just made it inevitable. In retrospect, as always. As of 2008, Kong will be on 2300-footers.

Lesson learned, in a good way. That's the first time I have had a film 'riding' like this towards the end of a reel, so just a friendly 'by the way' to everyone, if you haven't experienced this.

Best,
Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 27, 2007 09:12 PM

Good lesson, that's why I never mount features on anything bigger than 1600 foot reels and keep a deciated take up reel for each projector. A pair of 3500's with change-overs and a rewind bench is a great way to go and you don't over tax the projector with rewinding with all the wear on the machine and belts from running those big reels. 2300 foot reels had there place and it was in television stations that needed to put one hour shows on one reel with commercials. ABC used to mount the 16mm back up prints (they used 35mm on air with 16mm back up) on 2300 foot Goldberg metal reels so they knew they'd run straight and true.

John

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted November 27, 2007 09:36 PM

John,

Fascinating info about the ABC film chains; I never knew they ran dual setups. Did they have a way to sync them, or did they slave them "wild" by ,perhaps, countdown, so the interruption for changeover would be minimal?

I agree two of the 3500s would be a good way to minimize the rewind wear.
However I got an Eiki 6000-ft long-play tower with matching reels recently and I figure, even If I don't always load a full feature on this unit, I will use that as a rewinder for my feature reels as the motors are both strong and gentle, even with (relatively) 'smaller' reels.

Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 28, 2007 08:36 AM

Yes...I'm learning the lessons John is talking about. Lately, I've been getting films in from sellers ...B films...running 65 minutes or so and they are mounted on one very full 2000 or 2300 foot reel. And I learned quickly what happens if these have any curl in them and have baggy take up....and they are also a pain to thread up with film flopping off the reel as I try to thread my Pageant. So after some nasty incidents and general inconvenience, I , too , have started automatically mounting those on 1600 foot ...or even 1200 foot reels. ...and using my good true high quality metal 2000 foot reels strictly for takeup. Oh, and Claus, you are really in high gear with your hobby. And you also write beautifully . I enjoy your contributions. I work in D.C. and live in Manassas. We must at least meet at some point. It would be nice to screen a film other than the ones my 7 year old daughter wants to see.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 30, 2007 07:30 PM

Claus,

Film chains by there very nature are locked to house sync (tv synchroniztion) with sync motors. The film chains themselves were also selsyn interlocked so the 35mm and 16mm were supposed to be frame by frame in synch. It wasn't also so since a slight misthreading could throw the back up off by a few frames and occassionally you'd catch it on the air when they "fell back" to the 16mm.

Surprisingly even back then you could see the difference in transmission between the 16mm and 35mm prints in those 1970 days.

John

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted December 01, 2007 03:44 PM

Gary,

Thank you for the kind words. I remember we had talked about 'King Kong' at some point when I bought it on 16mm.
It could be fun to meet in 2008, after the Christmas/New Year madness has receeded. I'll be in touch about that.

Talk Soon,
Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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