8mm Forum: Bell & Howell on Ebay

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Topic: Bell & Howell on Ebay

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 29, 2007 03:43 AM

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I am frankly puzzled as to who are all the people buying TQ series 16mm Bell & Howells on Ebay. Are they aware that, in the main, they are in for a load of trouble?

I managed to get the best of all the B&H models, a TQ1 655QE for £31. The QE is the later version with two position lamp switch. The amplifier is probably the most powerful particularly when it's feeding two 12" speakers in parallel. It was to join another same item in my collection. I was well aware that I was going to spend a lot of money to bring it up to speck. £192 actually, plus the £31, making a total of £223, and that doesn't include any of the carriage costs.

The advertiser (cleverly?) said that there was no mains lead included so he could not test it. Luckily I have many of these with the 4-way Jones socket on the end. A well-known advertiser in the Home Movie world is charging £40 for these (newly made up) leads.

The projector was very good cosmetically. But inside, wow, I've never seen a worm which was peeling like a banana. The sound stabiliser assembly was seized. So it was time to have it professionally serviced.

Items fitted were new worm, new drive belt, new take-up arm kit, new felt wick, new bearing. The sound assembly rollers were freed, and a lamp conversion kit was fitted for the A1/259 lamp. Parts were £97 and labour £95, (no VAT). Total. as I said, £223.

But how many casual eBay buyers know what's in store for them? As they say in Latin, "Buyer Beware."

Maurice

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Maurice

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 29, 2007 08:51 AM

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Hi young man. Nice to chat at Blackpool.

I have a TQ III and its a joy to use, far better than my two Elfs and the cheapo claw idea which was a bit let down. Did used to have three TQ III machines but two friends were after so they are still using even yet as I had to keep them happy.

My Dad always used to favour the B&H 642 and this gave great service. Another friend has one and we use his every other week.

I see a TQ was on offer at Backers with new gear in and serviced. Know the guy that was selling this record model and I wonder who purchased it.

Take care now.
Best
Lee.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 29, 2007 11:21 AM

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Hello Lee

I enjoyed meeting you at Blackpool. It was good I was using the train and only had a small bag otherwise I would have bought much more than I did.

The 642 was a wonderful machine, with its manual thread there was no danger of ruining your leaders. It had a good sound output but the 1000 watt 240v lamps were always expensive. I now have two 652s and managed to buy a whole load of 115 volt lamps at a knock-down price. These I use with a Bell & Howell transformer which also supplies 240v to the amp and motor.

As a collector of over 800 16mm films, (not counting the Super 8) I, as you, find that Bell & Howells with their three claws and three sprockets (OK, two, with the film meeting the second twice) are far superior for handling old film than the Elfs with their two claws.

But. As I said, are many buyers aware of the worm problems? Some time ago I was hoping to buy a Bell & Howell and asked the seller "how's the worm?" He had no idea of what I was taking about.

Regards.

Maurice

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Maurice

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 29, 2007 01:04 PM

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You are right Maurice. I think many on auntie ebay have no idea about the mechanical issues on B&H machines and as with most things in an auction room, we take quite a chance buying vintage gear.

I wrote to many Uni's and secured a few B&H machines which had all the service stickers on so these were just fine and all are going strong even yet pleased to say.

We need to know what we are doing and I am still learning even after all these years. The forum is a good help I think and its also good to chat with others at the various events and go visiting folk at home which we do quite a bit.

I am the guy many will know around here who picks the phone up and asks "are you having a film show tonight?" If the answer is no then I usually say we are and come over.

Great so see these machines still working and I think they will see us all in our boxes eigh.

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 07, 2007 11:31 AM

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Every Green TQ111 I have seen has had a cracked or broken worm gear. Previous models 50/50. But the dark coloured TQ111 I have one and it is perfect, also I have a pair of the later model and they too are perfect.
So if buying on Ebay these later dark coloured machines are the ones I would go for.

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Regards,
David

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Thomas Powys-Keck
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Clapham Village,West Sussex,England
Registered: Oct 2006

posted February 09, 2008 03:53 PM

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Hello Maurice! I just wondered where you got your projector serviced?

Tom. [Smile]

[Smile]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 10, 2008 02:41 AM

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Tom

I have sent you a PM.

Maurice

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Maurice

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 11, 2008 06:59 AM

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Personally, I've never been involved with B&H projectors.
I use an Elf and a Bauer.
Is this worm gear problem common to all models?

Mike.

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

posted February 11, 2008 08:25 AM

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No only B&H, the worm gear is made of 2 materials a metal inner and a nylon/plastic outer. This outer shrinks and cracks, then breaks up.
When a replacement done it is solid nylon/plastic so if you find a B&H with one of these in it might well run for ever. The sad thing is B&H knew of the problem but continued with useing this type of construction.
Replacement is very expensive due to a lot of time being involved, not a DIY job.

All the Elfs I have come across have needed new belts, cheap on Ebay and an easy DIY job.

Used Bauer a lot in the the long gone past odd looking in a way but were good machines, not seen one for years so no idea if they have an ageing item.

--------------------
Regards,
David

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Josef Grassmann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Hennef-Sieg, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

posted February 11, 2008 09:26 AM

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There don´t exist any worm-gear problems with Bauer projectors.
They are terrible relaiable and smooth running.
Worm gear on Pantason and P5 had been made from solid steel and P6, P7 and P8 have it made from solid brass.
It´s very important to use the special oils and grease in order to minimise friction and wear. Maintance should be carried out every 300-500 hrs. or 4-6 years.
At present there is a 16mm Bauer P8 on Ebay No. 200198205024 (is not a friend of mine). It´s a very nice machine.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 11, 2008 09:33 AM

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Please see my posting dated February 10th on the section "16mm equipment for sale/wanted" under the sub-heading of "Wanted, worm gears for Bell & Howell."

This contains a warning about using one-piece black worms for the Bell & Howells.

Maurice

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Maurice

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 12, 2008 02:28 AM

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Thanks fellas, for the info. What I actually meant was - are there any B&H Models which don't have the worm gear problem, or, is it common to all B&H ?
-Mike

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 12, 2008 03:27 AM

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Mike

All the "blimp" (wooden case) models prior to the introduction of the 641 series in 1962 are OK.

The blimp models are 601 (1948), 621 (1951), 626 (1953), 630 (1953), 622 (1954), 631 (1957), 640 (1958), 636 (1960), 8399 (1965), 8636 (1975), 8302 (1975).

The 641 series (641, 642, 643. 644) eventually became the TQI, TQII, and the TQIII. These all have the worms which can cause problems.

If you are not sure of your potential purchase insist on taking off the back and inspecting the worm gear for cracks. I would avoid any form of mail order unless you are very sure of the seller.

Maurice

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Maurice

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

posted February 12, 2008 03:29 AM

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Difficult to answer. Ok a B&H which as been refurbished should be ok.
I'm told all can suffer and indeed seen several myself with the problem.
But my 3 which I use are ok they are the later Grey/brown ones, 2 are in the 25xx series. The third in the TQ111 series BUT it again is the grey/black model and NOT a green one.
All the green ones I have seen have worm poblems, but I have never seen a dark coloured one with a problem.
I just think B&H might have made a manfacturing change of the gear, it is still a 2 part one, but maybe the fit changed or different nylon/plastic, I do not know. I might just be lucky.
Regards
David

Maurice as typed at same time as me.
I agree with him on his models, but he lacks the later 25xx series.
I would not have thought you would go for a 641 series or before, valve amps and tungston lamps. the 601 seies are hard on films and are usually nearly give away machines.

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Regards,
David

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 12, 2008 05:00 AM

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David

The 25 series is much newer and possibly the worms haven't yet reached the end of their life. Or, it could be that the later projectors have been used regularly, something which could prolong the life of the worms indefinitely. The green series have probably not been used for years and have been sitting on a shelf or forgotten in a cupboard, until eBay has come along bringing the £££££££ signs into sellers eyes. The worms tend to start cracking as they dry out through unuse.

I did forget to mention in my earlier posting today that a safe bet (regarding worms) are the very last Bell & Howells which were made by Eiki and badged as Bell & Howell, I believe these were the 35 series but I'm not too sure.

Does anyone know the series numbers of these projectors?

Maurice

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Maurice

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 12, 2008 07:01 AM

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Thanks again for all the information .
-Mike

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 12, 2008 03:52 PM

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I have recently obtained a pair of 2580 B&H classroom projectors. These are old, but they are the slot load type, which makes them not that old. They needed some simple stuff. They're running just fine. And I am new to 16mm. Looking forward to getting a feature soon. I feel when it comes to optical sound, 16mm is the way to go (compared to optical on super 8 of which I have many and I'm not that impressed with super 8 optical).

Chip

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted February 16, 2008 12:42 AM

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Interesting topic, I for one hope that B/H goes on forever the model I have is the 1680GS Slot loader "black model" bought it around 1996 still goes really well never had a problem, I have a spare Eiki but prefer the B/H because of its 3 claw pull down, so I am hoping to get another 12 years out of it, did they ever make new worm gears out of brass?

Graham.

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

posted February 16, 2008 05:22 AM

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B&H never changed.
The ones you buy to use as replacements people have made all from plastic/nylon. Ones I've seen are black. Never seen brass ones, guess one as to think about the mating gear and wear and noise.
B&H were naughty to continue to use them when they must have known..
I took a brand new one out to do a show, I opened box just to try it before leaving, glad I did. Yes the problem as bad as that.

--------------------
Regards,
David

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