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Author Topic: Buzz track & Azimuth 16mm Opt test loops
David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 18, 2016 12:34 PM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WTB or loan. This may well be asking for the moon, but does anyone have either or both 16mm Optical Buzz and Azimuth Test film loops, or a long section from which you could supply?

I have a machine with suspect amplifier/photo diode/optical lens fault, and this machine needs a proper line-up.

Any help much appreciated

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted August 20, 2016 03:12 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello David

I have a new 100ft spool of 16mm buzz track to sell that you may find useful in your projector testing - the price including mainland postage is £10 - if you are interested please let me know your details by PM message

Kevin

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 20, 2016 09:01 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
KEVIN
PM sent today

Thanks
David

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted August 20, 2016 11:08 AM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just replaced a photocell on my 641 machine. This was very noisy before I traced the fault to the actual cell. Not much lining up needed. Projected a film with the flywheel off, moving the cell until I got the best sound.

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 20, 2016 11:29 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Simon.
I my case, I have substituted the amplifier, the exciter and the photo diode with no cure. The actual sound lens is now highly suspect and I now intend to replace same. However, with differing prints,various track formats (variable density or area) the need for accurate track centering is vital. The azimuth, could at a pinch be done by "ear", but I want to get this machine spot-on.
Appreciate your input.

David

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted August 21, 2016 03:32 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
PM replied to David.

Simon is right the adjustment needed to the lens is tiny and quite fiddly but very rewarding once you get it right - when I have adjusted optical sound lenses I have always followed this method:

1. Use compressed air and cotton buds to clean the sound section thoroughly

2. Fit a new optical sound exciter lamp regardless of the appearance of the old one and make sure it is the correct type for the projector

3. Mark a small line vertically and horizontally on the side of the sound lens barrel so at least you can get back to the start point if needed.

4. Always check the film is tight around the sound drum and in the case of Eiki / Elf machines the tensioner arms are moving freely - I once missed this on a slot load Eiki and ended up unnecessarily adjusting the sound lens for the wrong reason

5. Use an extension speaker rather than the built in speaker to ensure the best sound frequency range is obtained

6. If all this fails speak to Bill Parsons to book the projector in with him for a service and repair !!!

Hope this helps and you soon get to the bottom of your sound problems.

Kevin

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 21, 2016 05:23 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin,
I thank you for the PM and have replied.

Adjustment of the sound lens is made more fiddly due to lack of finger grip area on the lens itself. Without the special tool, I have found that a 16mm i/d open grommet will provide additional grip to the lens, but with the limited access area, makes alignment still very difficult.
I have been surprised, at the variation of track responses, both from differing prints, and also differing track formats.
In the absence of proper alignment film, I have found that the
testing with variable density track instead of "area" gives a better indication of azimuth. This seems particularly so with 35mm track alignment.I have experienced the odd print with a track that is definately "off azimuth", due to perhaps, poor lab equipment calibration.

Again Kevin, I thank you!
David

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 23, 2016 03:53 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey guys, you are talking "sound lens" something that I asked in different thread but no onee give the repsonse.

I have an Elmo 16CL, and am also suspecting the problem of the projector's low sound is the sound lens.

So where can I buy the new replacement ?

thanks

--------------------
Winbert

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 23, 2016 04:25 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert,
I my experience, it is unusual to find a defective sound lens.
More often dirt is the problem. In my case there is evidence that the lens has been "fiddled with" and on examination, the slit appears to be distorted.
I would take note of comments made regarding the exciter lamp itself, and the possibility of dirt or debris being in the light path of the sound lens/photo diode.
If the projector has sustained a mechanical shock at some point, then the lens alignment may be off. Without loading film,try sliding a piece of white card or paper across the sound drum and see if the projected slit looks clean and bright
It may well be that lens alignment could be your problem.

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 24, 2016 03:53 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin,

Your test films arrived safely today.
Thanks again

David

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted August 29, 2016 04:29 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for the news and your PM David I'm pleased to have been able to help you.

Kevin

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 29, 2016 09:40 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whilst awaiting the arrival of my replacement optical lens, I decided to test two other 16mm machines that I had preciously "aligned by ear", and had considered the sound to be ok.

Having now received two sound test films: Buzz track (for centering and frequency track for azimuth settings), I decided to re-test those two projectors.

I was VERY surprised to realise that my previous "by ear" alignment was far from optimum! An off-centre track can modulate the sound, resulting in some distortion.

Both machines now reproduce sound that`sparkles on all applied types of track!
I also discovered that a very small amount of dust, within the optical sound lens on one machine, had reduced the sound level by about 20%. A cotton bud dampened with isopropol lifted the dust and left the lens clean.

I have to admit that in the past, and the absence of proper alignment equipment, my track setting was far from perfect!

My local film presentation society members, now have the test films to ensure all their 16mm projectors are at their best!

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted August 29, 2016 02:13 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David
Can you describe how you did this line up please? Have found a track alignment film which I would like to try. Thanks.

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 30, 2016 04:47 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Simon
Is your test film multi frequency or single 5or 6 Khz type?
Does it incorporate a buzz track?

David

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted August 30, 2016 03:28 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi David
Have two films; one is marked TF 165 Alignment Track, the other is 5khz 162 low rate flutter.

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 30, 2016 04:12 PM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Simon,
As we are "off topic"I have sent PM.
Regards
David

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted September 09, 2016 09:54 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Simon,
My suggestions for optical sound lens alignment check.

I am assuming you have the standard optics for B&H units
and the lens is set within a cast alignment fixing.
This would have a brass hex adjustment screw for the lateral
track centering, and a slotted screw to lock the focussing of the lens.
First. check you have the correct exciter lamp, and it has not
blackened or shows any finger marking.

Carefully place marks both along and around the lens outer tube, to allow return to existing position.
Find suitable tool to fit the brass hex lateral adjustment screw. Lace-up the buzz track test film and run, preferably
listening through headphones (with the treble control at max)
You should hear NO tone at this point. The buzz track has two
tones on it, one low about 300Hz and the other about 1000Hz.
These are set either side of the edge of your optical track.

If you hear any tone, this means the optics are off-centre and
adjustment of the lateral (in or out) should be made until the
tones disappear.

If you hear an intermittent tone that comes and goes, that suggests the film is weaving as it travels, and this may require
attention to film guides/rollers (possible lubrication).

The frequency test film should be run now, firstly to identify
the highest frequency recorded (this may be listed with data supplied with the film, or have narration within the film itself). You are listening for the highest frequency available.

Most important find or "make" a tool to rotate the optical lens
within it`s casting. I modified a plastic clothes peg (narrowed the thickness and placed thin rubber in jaws to help with grip)
this "tool" will have to be thinned to about 4mm in order to get between the exciter and the lens end.

Important! the adjustment of the focussing is very critical and requires only VERY small movement during alignment!

We are looking to obtain the maximum output at the highest frequency available from your test film, and adding a test meter across the amplifier output, would provide a visual indication in addition to the perceived audio,(10vAC range).
Rotation of the lens sets azimuth, and left to right affects the focus. Both are important and I found that focus 1st then azimuth,alternating until you obtain the optimum works.

I found that running a repeat azimuth test, allowed that "tiptop" result I was after.
When that point is reached, secure the locking screw!

As far as flutter testing (high frequency speed variation) is concerned, this is usually caused by incorrect bottom loop size
and/or lubrication of the stabilisation rollers adjacent to the sound drum. Incorrect gate pressure can also cause flutter.

I wish you well!

David

[ September 09, 2016, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: David Fouracre ]

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004


 - posted September 09, 2016 01:10 PM      Profile for Simon McConway     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the detailed response. So to position the sound photo cell correctly, the procedure is the same?

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted September 09, 2016 01:38 PM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Simon,
If you have positioned the cell for maximum output, then I would expect the above process to be satisfactory.
David

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