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Author
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Topic: I FINALLY NAILED IT DOWN!!
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 17, 2008 02:24 PM
I have given the whole topic of film vs. video collectors a lot of thought and I think I have finally nailed it down.
There are two groups of people :
There are those who are "film lovers" these are those who actually love the original medium on which the movies or I'd like to call "stories" are placed upon.
Then there are the "movie lovers" or "Story Lovers", these are those that really don't care which medium the story is delivered upon. Most certainly, they love a good tale, but the medium on which it is delivered is inconsequential.
I do believe that "Film Lovers" are blessed in that they have a "dual love" in that they not only enjoy the medium, but also the story placed upon the medium, so they have twice as much to love. Twice the fun, twice the romance.
The "movie lover", while they may enjoy the medium for whatever the reason, would easily part with it for the "next best thing", and so the medium is of little concern, as long as it delivers.
I do fear that sooner or later, we will be a society that does not even understand the concepts of "film grain" and "film stocks" ect. It is already an alien thing to them.
Your opinions, me heartys ?!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 18, 2008 08:50 AM
Though I haven't filmed in Standard 8mm for many years, I was stunned back then, (and still today, looking at the overall quality of standard 8mm in the Blackhawk releases, for instance), at how sharp standard 8mm can look.
have seen many a standard 8mm print that looks sharper than Super 8 at times. There seemed to be overall better quality standards for Standard 8mm than for Super 8mm, (Look at Atlas's Super 8 releases for an example of just how awful Super 8 can look.)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted August 21, 2008 12:17 PM
I have to echo Barry Johnson's sentiments regarding the virtues of Standard 8.
I simply love it, both for film collecting and also for shooting. I agree that quite often, the projected image is sharper than Super 8, be it colour or monochrome.
With regard to shooting, I firmly believe that the gate and pressure plate mechanism in Standard 8 cameras is far superior to the Super 8 cartridge plastic "spring".
I did invest in GK's expensive chrome pressure plate for inserting into the Super 8 cartridge, which certainly does improve the quality of the projected image, but it's a bit of a fiddle to change it out every time you change film cartridges in the camera.
I'm certainly not decrying Super 8, as I have many excellent films in my collection, - I'm just saying that Standard 8 can be superb.
Yes, Barry, Standard 8 does indeed rule quite often.
Cheers,
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Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 21, 2008 06:44 PM
I totally agree with David and Barry on this one. I have standard 8mm Kodachrome from the 1960's which looks incredible when projected on my Bolex 18-5. Pin sharp across the whole picture and beautiful rich colors. Unmatched by any home video that I have ever seen. I think one reason standard 8mm camera film looks so good may be because most standard 8 was shot on cameras with fixed (non-zoom) camera lenses like the superb Kern Switar and Yvar lenses. And the cameras were all metal construction, with precision metal gates, as David points out. In contrast, nearly all S8 cameras have plastic bodies, and use the Kodak cartridge which is a really terrible design. You just can't beat roll film going through a precision metal camera gate.
Super 8 did nothing that could not have been acheived on standard 8. We could have had stereo mag sound and optical sound on standard 8. The 50% picture area increase of S8 should have been well worth having, but the Kodak cartridge design and proliferation of zoom lenses, more than offset that theoretical advantage.
Pick up a Bolex standard 8 camera and M8 or 18-5 projector and you will know exactly why a lot of people still prefer standard 8mm.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted August 22, 2008 06:01 PM
The thing I liked about filming on Standard 8 was that, for the most part, the cameras were not automated. So you really had to know all about film speeds, shutter speeds, apertures, and depth of focus, and how to use a light meter. Few cameras had reflex viewfinders so you had to know about parallax, and how to compensate for it. You had to know how to keep the camera clean and how to load up a roll of film in the daylight without fogging it up, and how to switch it over at 25ft. In other words, you had to know your stuff. So you took great care setting up every shot to get it just right, because you knew there would be no second takes and you would not see how well you had done for a couple of weeks later. Maybe that's why lots of people got such stunning looking standard 8mm pictures!
Compare that attitude with today's video camera crowd, shooting miles and miles of numbingly boring tape, panning and zooming at everything in sight ad nauseum, pictures which will only be watched (endured) once and then forgotten.
The oft quoted phrase ' tape is rust, film is silver' is so true.
Maybe its a good thing that video tapes degrade so fast.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted August 26, 2008 11:45 AM
I simply just love my Sankyo Auto 5X. It's the only standard 8 camera I have right now, but soldiers on and on without a hiccup.
5 times power operated zoom lens, auto / manual exposure, and pretty silent too. The batteries seem to last for ages, both the exposure battery and the motor / zoom battery. It's quite a light machine too - certainly lighter than both my Bauer Super 8 cameras, probably because it's cast aluminium. Also has the daylight filter which flips in and out with the aid of a simple switch. Film loading is simplicity itself too.
I must look for another one sometime soon, as this one can't go on for ever, - surely!
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Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted August 27, 2008 09:36 AM
Hi Osi,
Many thanks for the offer. However, I think that on balance I would prefer to go for another battery operated camera, rather than a hand-crank type.
BTW, I forgot to mention that the Sankyo has 3 frame speeds: 12, 16, & 24fps.
Best,
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Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted August 27, 2008 09:56 AM
Cool David.
You know folks, I wonder if those who just don't get the love of film, would even find the fascination I have of checking out a film in the light to compare color fade on prints, as an incredibly silly waste of time?
Probably, but it is a fascination. On a post (on the 16MM forum) I talked about the 16MM ads I just recieved, and how good of shape they are in, I loved looking at these things that no one accept collectors could even look at, vintage cereal ads of Toucan Sam can you can't find ANYWHERE in ANY video format!!
Some would say, "Why Bother?!"
But I bet that some would be envious.
That's not why I collect film, but like the rest of us on this forum, (and many collectors out there as well), we love the art and "technique" (?) of film and everything that goes with it!
LOVE LIVE ANY DAMNED FILM GAUGE!!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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