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Author
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Topic: What do you think about these projectors?
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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm
Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted January 25, 2005 11:26 AM
I've been noticing a number of very interesting super-8 sound projectors on eBay and other venues lately, one of which I would be interested in buying when the opportunity presents itself... and in trying to collect more information on them, I'm just wondering what you folks may be able to contribute (maybe even from first-hand experience). No Elmo stuff here, as that gets more than enough coverage around here ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Bolex SM8 - seems a very high-quality machine, all-metal construction and (most unusual, I think) an 800ft. reel capacity. Wow...
Sankyo Sound-702 and Sankyo Sound-762 - more than anything I wonder what the difference between these two is, though I did find out the 762 only uses a 30V/80W lamp. In light of its other features that seems unusual as I would think the light output would be quite weak and not suitable for "big" projection at all. I could swear this is the same "wanna-be" lamp that some cheap Kodak Ektasound projectors use!
Bauer T60 Royal - a darned good-looking stereo machine with 800ft. reel capacity, 150W lamp (I think), slider controls, powerful amplifier, etc... appears to be a direct forerunner of the T5xx and T6xx models. It must be good, but is it?
Bolex SM80 - looks pretty modern though I can't be certain whether or not it has any sort of digital frame counter and/or programmable sound recording (like the high-end Bauers do). Mostly I'm trying to get specs on this one, though (lamp, lens, sound quality, film transport path).
And last but not least - OK, I lied when I said "no Elmos here," because what I always wanted to know was: what is the main difference between the ST1200 and the GS1200? What makes the GS1200 so much more valuable, other than its ability to sync to an external signal (such as a DVD player to provide 5.1 surround sound etc.)?
Thanks all ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 26, 2005 09:49 AM
Jan, the Elmo ST1200 and GS1200 are excellent projectors, but you may also wish to consider the Eumig range of projectors. Eumigs are very well designed and solidly built machines and are extremely kind to your films. Of particulr note are the S938 and S940 stereo machines, which while not quite as bright as the Elmo GS1200, have wonderful stereo sound quality and superb sound recording and mixing controls. But stay clear of the 900 thru 929 range, all of which had a poorly conceived coaxial reel arrangement and were very finicky machines. The earlier 800 series machines are also good, particularly the 810 HQS (High Quality Sound) series, but avoid the dual guage (reg 8 + super 8) versions of these machines.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 26, 2005 11:28 AM
I have to agree with Mark on the Eumig 810D's. I find them quite nice and I 've never had any scratching. Now , admittedly , I only use it for standard 8mm. I used to have an old 709 D that DID scratch up my Super 8 films, but I've not had that on the 810 or the other Eumig dual that I have, the 824D sonomatic. For my Super 8 projection , I have two Elmo st1200hd's , one older st1200. and in reserve ready to go, an st 800 and a 180e. And from what I've heard about the constant problems the GS1200's seem to have , I'm glad to stick with the St's because I've run them all for years...millions of feet of film and never had any problem except to replace the belts. The mechanical construction is more reliable day in and day out.... yes, it's not as bright, doesn't have sync ...but at least you not always wondering what new bug the GS is going to develop next. I bought one of the St1200hd's brand new in the mid seventies and it is still working beautifully.
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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm
Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted January 28, 2005 10:29 PM
LOL @ Kev, I kinda saw that one coming after Gary's comment about the GS1200 "bugs."
Actually, it seems to me the Elmo GS800 is held in considerably lesser regard than the GS1200, I'm wondering why that is? Only difference that I'm aware of is, of course, the 800ft. reel capacity... some hints, maybe?
As for Chinon projectors chewing up film, that's a bit of a surprise since my Chinon SP-330MV is extremely good to all my films, and I find that it's quite well designed - even when threading or hitting the loop restorer it's still easy on the film because the pressure plate slightly lifts off the gate at the same time the loops are forced "back into shape," which isn't something you can say of many projectors... impressive! However, because of the lacking sound quality, I'm thinking of reselling my Chinon sometime soon.
I've definitely been drooling over the Eumig S938 and S940, I forgot to mention them in my original post And no worries about me going with the coaxial reel arrangement either, I'd rather have a stake driven through my heart than have to bother with one of those. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Last but not least... I do have a new dream machine as of tonight... the Braun Visacustic 2000. (Although I wouldn't diss the 1000, either.) Gawd, I'm in love with it. It seems to be an incredibly rare machine, though, as only Wittner-Kinotechnik is even offering it for sale at the moment, at a somewhat steep price of 700 euros. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I've also had an eye on the Beaulieu 708EL stereo but kinda gave up on the idea of it after hearing about how finicky a machine it really is, and that despite of its awesome performance, it can break down quite a lot. Who was it again that commented on the capstan wheel transport going haywire when the lamp for the optical loop sensor burned out? *shudder*
EDIT: Forgot to ask, but: has anyone ever been to http://www.super8film.at or even bought something from there, and would you consider this a decent place to buy a projector from? Nothing against Phil's excellent website http://www.8mm16mmfilmscollectibles.com mind you, but I'm trying to hang on to my money here ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 29, 2005 07:07 PM
Jan, I would think that when you are using extremely fast f1.0 projection lenses, where the depth of field is miniscule, that having the fixed portion of the gate on the lens side would be a real advantage. Otherwise, any variations in film thickness are going to necessitate a focus adjustment. All 8mm cameras are designed with the fixed portion of the gate on the lens side, and you would think the same criteria would apply to projectors - apparently not. Although my wonderful little Bolex 18-5 Std 8mm projector is built this way, none of my super 8 sound projectors are. It would be interesting to determine the thickness variation on say a typical 400ft printed reel of film, and compare this with the Elmo f1.0 projector lens depth of focus, to determine the magnitude of the problem.
The Braun Visacoustic sound fascinating- any links to specs and photos of this machine?
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Ugo Grassi
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 506
From: Avellino (Italy)
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted January 30, 2005 10:29 AM
I hope this translation is better than that from altavista or google...
Here a truly particular projector: we are speaking about the Braun Visacustic 2000, one of the most expensive sonorous projectors (this is sure for the foreign market, see the stratospheric price from Wittner-Kinotechnik). We have to consider the target was conceived: to be the complement to the cinema cameras Braun-Nizo, the top of the Super8 cinema cameras. This projector has a lot of accessories, sync. circuits, adapters, etc. The machine was able to play in slave to a recorder, following an impulse sound from one of the tracks.
We agree: this is a Mr. Projector! it has characteristics more than satisfactory: Schneider lens 1,1 (of series), high class electronic components for an audio truly very clear, recording and reading stereo, digital frame counter, two sprockets, 15v. 15o w. lamp, capacity coils 240 meters, many possibilities of synchronization through a dedicated external unit. The film can be paraded from the proj. in any moment. During the projection the machine is behaved very well: silent, delicate with the films. Stable and audio image much clean one, between the best ones than I never saw. The pressur plate is metallic, like that one from Elmo.
(...) follow...
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Bye
Ugo
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted January 30, 2005 04:22 PM
The Braun Visacoustic sure seems like a fabulous machine, how come we never hear about it?
The more I think about Jan's comment on the rear sprung pressure pad, the better I like it. Seems to me that Elmo, Eumig, et al, should have designed their film gates this way. Think about it, a gate which is fixed on the lens side( and therefore sprung on the lamp side) eliminates all focus variation problems associated with, a) film thickness variation , b) stripe thickness variation, c) thickness variation between main and balance stripe, resulting in a linear focus gradiant from picture left to picture right d) vertical focus variation caused by the fixed portion of the film gate not being perpendicular to the lens axis.
Sounds like the rear sprung gate design is the only way to go. So how come everyone else (including the Elmo GS1200) ended up with a front sprung gate design?
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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