8mm Forum: Elmo ST-800 Maintenance Questions (Updated)

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Topic: Elmo ST-800 Maintenance Questions (Updated)

Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted December 30, 2005 10:43 PM

Hi all,

I can't believe that after all these year of visiting the film-tech site I have overlooked this 8mm forum!

I've had a search through the forums but I decided to start a new topic so that some of my questions could be answered together.

I just acquired a ST-800 to compliment my chinon SP-330.

The main issue that i seem to be having is related to the film 'chattering' inside the projector which in turn creates an unstable image on the screen. Both the top and bottom loops appear to be normal and I have never had to use the loop reset to fix to bottom loop.

The other problem that I have is that the films appear to be skewed slightly. There is a white line that appears on the left hand side of the screen.

In both situations, the Chinon has no problem with playback so I doubt it is a problem with the film. I'm not too sure what adjustments should be made, I attacked the projector with a vacuum cleaner on the lowest setting to see if there was any dust (this thing was dusty!) which was affecting operating but to no avail.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 31, 2005 06:50 AM

Welcome to the forum Bobby. You will find a great bunch of guys on here ready and willing to answer your questions. Hopefully you will also have answers etc for some of the other guys and will contribute generally. Enjoy [Smile]

The first question I have to ask about your ST800 is do all films project off centre with the white line down the edge?
If the answer is yes then I suspect that someone has played with the fixed gate runners which control the position of the film. This would also mean that the claw could now be hitting the edge of the sprocket holes resulting in the noise and picture shakes.

If you lube the film does this help?

If you look at the gate you will see the fixed runner held in place with 2 screws. Feel the screw heads and see if they are smooth or a bit course. If the screw heads are course or chewed this could indicate some previous user intervention [Frown]

You would need some SMTPE test film to adjust this yourself. Dont play unless you are sure that all films are out of position and that it looks like the machine has been played with.

Kev.

[ January 03, 2006, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted December 31, 2005 05:43 PM

Alas! It appears a mystery is afoot! [Wink]

In reply to your first question, Yes, every film is off balance with the white band appearing on the left hand side.

The screw heads appear to be smooth but the fixed gate runners that you mentioned are way out of kilter.

I have attached two photos:

Image 1 - Side On 332KB
Image 2 - Front On 232KB

I do not have any film cleaner - I'll have a look at the forums for a recommendation.

[ December 31, 2005, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Sciacchitano ]

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Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted December 31, 2005 09:54 PM

OK,

I 'manually' realigned the fixed gate runners which slightly fixed the alignment problem.

Referring to this post (Link) :

There is a reply from Antoine Orsero :

quote:
When the film is held on the projector, to try to grip film with the inch and the index of your hand right at the exit of the reel top! If the film stabilizes it is that it misses a little greasing!

I tested this and the two films I tried completely stabilize. So does this mean that the film or the projector requires grease?

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 01, 2006 06:37 AM

Bobby, I will take a pic of my GS later which is exactly the same as the ST800 for the layout of the gate. I would expect the runner to be square to the gate aperture which isnt the case in your pictures.
This will almost certainly be the reason why you have a white line down the edge of your films on projection and will probably account for the bad vibration to the picture.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 01, 2006 04:47 PM

Bobby, here is the picture of the runner in my GS. It does look as of its at a slight angle but thats due to the way the flash has lit the edge of the runner. A good indication is to look at the patern indentations on the main plate.

The runner on yours is quite clearly leaning into the gate at the top. There certainly shouldnt be any white down the side of the picture and really to do the adjustment properly you need some SMPTE test film which is slit to the exact specs and has a test chart for acurate alignment.

[ January 03, 2006, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 03, 2006 01:55 AM

Ok, thanks for that info, are there any specific places that I could obtain a reel of SMPT test film? Derann has scope test film But I do not have a scope lens.

Tomorrow night we're having some friends around for a movie evening. Is there anything else I can do to help with stabilization?

Thanks kevin for your help and patience.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 03, 2006 04:50 AM

Bobby, Looking at those pictures of yours and from what you are saying I suspect its the top screw which has been touched etc. Maybe you could loosen that top screw off and make sure the runner is then square to the fixing plate.
I'm not sure where to get the SMPTE test films from these days but maybe someone else can help. I'm sure they are available from the US.

Kev.

[ January 03, 2006, 07:35 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 06, 2006 12:33 AM

I thought you might be interested to hear how the inaugural film night went.

15 people piled into our front lounge room, the projectors were set up in the dining room and both did quite nicely projecting onto the screen. We have a pull-down screen installed inside the pelment box and we used our dusty old burgundy drapes to act as masking.

Image - Elmo and Chinon before loading

The Chinon was loaded with trailers and pre-show cartoon (Bugs bunny) And the Elmo was designated to play the first two reels of Alfred Hitchcock's Suspicion the final reel was played on the Chinon.

Our sound system consisted of a Mackie Mixer with a DBX graphic equalizer and DBX noise reduction system hooked up to a pair of stereo speakers.

The evening went without a hitch however a splice in the second reel came undone mid projection and jammed in the Elmo. Occasionally the Elmo would act out with the film shaking vertically but it was not as bad as what it used to be.

So a great evening was had by all. I will be posting a list of 'wants' - mainly Hitchcock and murder mysteries.

[ January 06, 2006, 01:41 AM: Message edited by: Bobby Sciacchitano ]

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Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 10, 2006 04:13 AM

After a few months of difficulties with the projector I decided to take it to a camera shop to get repaired. I was actually surprised because the projector came back in worse condition.

I ran a couple of 'test' prints and both prints ended up with a long white mark along the right hand side of the print. It turned out that there was actually metal fragments in the film path being held down by the pressure plate.

Just goes to show that you should always pay attention when other people touch your gear!

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 10, 2006 04:21 AM

That is really bad news. Are the other problems now sorted?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Bobby Sciacchitano
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 10, 2006 04:36 AM

Hi Kev,

The projector is also out of sync with sound so i suppose that watching a bad dub of a japanese film would be ok in this thing.

There are a few new mechanical problems and the machine is very noisy. The only upside out of all of this is that the film is aligned properly now.

Supposedly their service department used to be an authorised repairer of Elmo equipment. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone dusted off an old service guide and guessed their way through the procedures.

I'm taking the projector back tomorrow if they can't fix it I'm going to cut my losses. So far the projector has cost me (AUD):

Projector: $380
First Service: $150 to replace a broken belt
Second Service $250 = $780

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