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Topic: My Elmo GS is LOUD!

Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted June 07, 2006 01:13 PM

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My recently accired GS 800 is loud when projecting film, more so than a bauer 171 and a eumig 905 I have. It is loud like a non sound projector r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r, but this is mostly when the film is running through it. When it runs without film, just shutter\fan it is reasonably quiet.

What should I look into here?

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted June 07, 2006 04:43 PM

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Hi Knut
Try adjusting or replace the belt plus a drop of oil on the mainshaft might help.
Graham.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 07, 2006 06:15 PM

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It shouldnt be any louder than any of the other Elmo machines. I would suggest that you try to find where the noise is coming from. I have heard bad noises coming from these machines if one of the guides hasnt retracted properly after the autothread releases. The type of metal gate etc on the Elmo's does tend to lead to a little more noise but it shouldnt be unacceptably high.

Try to find what area of the film path is causing the noise and then we may be able to help further.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted June 07, 2006 08:15 PM

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One possible source of the noise might be an out-of-alignment claw which is transporting the film OK but hits the sprocket holes at their very edge instead of going into the center of the holes. Worth checking - best way to check visually is by removing the lens and looking "down the barrel" at the tiny cutout in the film gate where the claw is seen moving up and down. Be careful not to turn the lamp on if you want to keep your eyesight. [Wink]

[Wink]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted June 08, 2006 07:49 AM

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Hi guys.
Thanks for your replys.
What I can tell you (dont have the GS here) is that I tried to puss the auto thread lever (that locks when you are to thread the film and pops up when you turn to the light logo) and the projector was more quiet when i pushed it down than when it was in upright position. That is about how far I have gotten in my "noise testing". Don't know if it tells you anything?

K

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 08, 2006 07:53 AM

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Pushing down that lever does open the gate guides slightly so its possible that Jan's theory about the claw slightly hitting the edge could be the answer. Under those conditions however you would certainly get some vibration effect on the projected image.

I think you need to place your ear close to the film path to see if you can be sure to work out the exact area the noise is coming from.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted June 08, 2006 08:37 AM

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Ok, will drop a drop of oil on the main shaft like Graham said. But if the claw is out of alignmet -how do you realign?

Thanks for your help.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 08, 2006 10:20 AM

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You need to use grease on the main shaft worm gear not oil. Oil will just run off a fly round the innards.

Use a thick High Melting point grease like those available from Castrol.

If its a claw problem there WILL be some sort of picture unsteadiness. Not an easy thing to adjust.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted June 08, 2006 01:41 PM

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Ok, the picture seems steady to me, but the noise is the claw.
Could there be a slight dis-alignment issue here?

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 08, 2006 04:18 PM

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I think that the problem for me is not being able to hear what it sounds like myself. From my experience anything that makes the claw sound very noisy results in some picture disturbance.

Have you tried a good clean in the gate area and does it sound quiet if you lube the film.

Does this machine look as if it's led a hard life. One indication is to check how much wear is in that input guide which has the red arrow on it. These can wear quite badly. Where the film leaves that guide to run up to the first sprocket you can get some wear. You can undo that screw which goes through the guide and then simply remove the guide for inspection. There should be no bad wear at the rear of the guide at the two sides where the edges of the film run and if there is then it shouldnt run into the centre relieved area where the picture would be otherwise you will get bad scratching down the edges of your film. My point about this is that if there is very bad wear at this point it could indicate wear elsewhere.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 08, 2006 04:46 PM

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Knut, have you tried running different films? Is the noise there with just one, or all films you run? Just a thought that it could be the film...dried out or brittle, or maybe some sprocket damage. Also, if the film is magnetic sound and doesn't have a balance stripe, that could cause a lot of noise, but the picture would remain steady.

--------------------
Joe Taffis

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted June 08, 2006 04:57 PM

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Hi Knut
One thing you could try to check your claw is to thread a few feet of film into the projector then stop it. Switch the machine off, unplug it, and hinge the lens holder open and using a magnifying glass manually turn the projector over and watch your claw movement in relation with the film see what it does. Kev was right to point not to put oil on worm gear sorry about that I should have said only on the shaft end bearings well best of luck and hope you manage to fix it.
Graham

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Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted June 09, 2006 01:43 AM

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I was thinking I should tape a sound bit and upload it to the internet somewhere, but haven't had time. I'll try to do this on Sunday.
Kevin, the general looks of the projector is fine. apart from some scratches on the top it looks almost new.
I cleaned the gate and pressure plate with a brush before I tried to project film.
BTW that is a great tip, to check that guide for wear as a indication of it's general health. I'll do that. And report. Thanks
Joe, Do you think it is the film?
I have projected films from "the same batch" they are old, I do not know how they were kept. Magnetic sound.
Only tried a few sec of my own fresh k40 "stash" at 18 fps. True, that did not make as much noise as the old films at 24 fps.
Do you think the noise can be caused by film shrinkage?

I need to verify. As i mentioned I have a Bauer 171 i could test some of the films on. This projector I find to be very quiet, but if it gets more noisy with these films I guess it's a film issue.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 09, 2006 03:22 PM

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Knut, Very old aceate film will shrink with age and could well cause the symptoms your a talking of. Give one of these films that is very noisy a coating with some film lube and see if it quietens down. If you dont have any film lube then try a drop of WD40 or Armorall wipes on a section to see if that works. Somehow i suspect your machine is probaly ok and that its more likely to be the film......fingers crossed for you [Smile]

[Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted June 12, 2006 06:07 AM

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Update:
I think the noise I’m noticing is caused by two things. First the film itself. As you have pointed out old film can shrink and should be lubricated. Second, the loop. There seems to be an ideal loop, and if the loop is to big, the more noise from the claw. A small loop gave very little noise.

I think you may be right and the projector is ok after all, maybe it just needs some tlc and use, and that will make It purrrfect again.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 12, 2006 10:29 AM

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Thats good news. Good it a good run ans see how it runs after that. Try some new films as well if you have any.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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