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Author
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Topic: TAKE UP REEL SOLUTIONS :-)
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 21, 2006 03:39 PM
SEPTEMBER 7 2007
WRITER'S NOTE: SEE LAST ENTRY OF SEPT 7 BELOW FOR AN UPDATE TO THIS ARTICLE. BEGIN DIRECTLY BELOW TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORIES!
JULY 21 2006:
Use The Best Reels for Projection Free Trouble
After some experimenting, I have come up with a plan to run super 8 that works really well. I want to share it with all of you. But first, a small lecture in history.
Back when I became a projectionist in a theater (1981); my first job was at a small old theater that still had carbon arcs. We did changeovers every 20 minutes of 2000 feet (35mm). This is equivalent as 400ft of super 8. Before we showed the film for the first time, there was prep work that must be done. The film came in shipping cases on cheap metal or plastic “shipping reels.” In theory, these reels were never run on the machines, although on the last show of the booking, they could be used as take-up reels. The next theater that got the print only had to rewind one direction and they were ready to be shown. This was critical, because every projectionist liked to check the print himself to know the cue marks were there for the changeovers.
After the film was inspected, it was removed from the shipping reels and placed on the “house reels.” These heavy duty steel reels varied by design. Some of them were just standard reels, but others were more elaborate and had footage and run time gauges installed to the flanges. These house reels always went on the machines, and never ever left the theater. They were absolutely never placed in the shipping cases. These reels were rugged enough to withstand everyday projection. From 90 feet per minute (35mm) on the upper or lower magazines on the projectors, to the high speed rewind benches, they handled everything extremely well.
I started to think about this recently. After all these years of super 8 film projection, I knew there could be a procedure that would give the best trouble free projection. With all the 1200 foot reels available, most of them are cheaply made or have problems working on the projector shafts. This is why Elmo made their 1200 foot steel aluminum reel. How they did this exactly I do not know, but they did a good thing by making this reel.
Here’s a test you can do if you have big reels. Pick out three or four of them from your collection. They can be empty or full. Place each one on the projector shaft and spin it by hand. Now watch for the in and out play. That is, as the reel rotates in a clock wise direction, one edge of the flange (east side) will be close to the reel arm; and the other side (west) will be more towards you. During this test, release the reel and rotate the shaft to the next shaft key hole and repeat the spin by hand. See if you can find the one single shaft key hole that gives the least amount of in and out play.
When you do this test with the Elmo aluminum reel, you will find virtually all three key slots give very little in and out play. But your Taylor steel, Taylor small hub (the 1200 foot reel that holds 1600 ft), the Pliomagic (one of the worst for in and out play), as well as others will have in and out play as a problem.
The point here is to treat your Taylor, Pliomagic, and Goldberg reels as shipping reels, and your Elmo aluminum reels as house reels.
There are two ways of doing this depending your budget. You begin by picking up just a couple of Elmo reels and switching off take up reels between feature reels. Or, my preferred method would be to purchase or pull (out of your collection) ½ dozen Elmo reels. Then have them handy when you want to run a show. A half dozen big reels would be enough if you had a long movie. The full length Ben Hur comes in at 5 big reels, plus an extra reel for shorts before the main attraction. Before your audience arrives, check in your print on the rewind bench. Pull it off of the other brand reels, checking splices and tails to make sure everything is good. Make any changes as needed. Rewind the print on to the Elmo reels, and place only the Elmo reels on the projector shafts. As the film is shown rewind on the bench back on to the shipping reels that are perfect for storing your films in the cans or boxes.
It is a known fact that film edge contact with flanges can produce drag. If the drag is severe, it can produce unstable sound. A good confirmation is when you hear unstable sound and the capstan rollers are moving up and down, like a boat rocks on water. Almost enough to make you sick, literally. When the capstan pulls up, see if there is contact on the take up flange. When the capstan goes down, the reel should not be touching the film. This up, down, repeat rocking should be caused by a take up reel that is not spinning 100% clockwise. It will be very difficult to avoid flange contact, but you should be able to minimize it as much as you can. If the capstan rollers are reacting, then you need to work on this.
On a trial basis with my Towers, the Elmo 1200 foot reels are proving to be a godsend. It’s too bad they don’t make them anymore. Because they are the best reels on the market. If you can not find them through a dealer, then maybe you have some in your collection already. Simply purchase standard brand big reels and transfer the footage between the two different brands. Free up the Elmo reels from within your library and use them as house reels.
It has also been said that we do love running projectors and working with film. So don’t look as checking in the print, fast forwarding once and rewinding twice as something extra to do. If you feel this is too much work then consider DVD. Because super 8 film collecting and everything else associated with it, most certainly is a labor of celluloid love.
I would be happy to answer any questions you might have regarding this post.
Chip Gelmini
Cape Cod Massachusetts
[ September 07, 2007, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Chip Gelmini ]
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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm
Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted July 23, 2006 08:43 AM
I wouldn't say it's critical per se, but the Elmo ST machines in particular tend to produce sound problems if the take-up torque is irregular (i.e. not perfectly uniform over time). That, in turn, can happen if the take-up reel doesn't spin 100% true and the film may scrape against one of both of its flanges periodically with each full revolution that the take-up reel makes.
Chip's post was addressing this, recommending to use Elmo's own 1200ft aluminium take-up reels exclusively for take-up since they're so well-made that film is much less likely to touch the flanges and the take-up performs much better.
This isn't really an issue with many other projectors, especially those of smaller capacity (600ft) - so, Winbert, if you don't have any problems with your film image or sound, just keep doing what you're doing and don't worry about it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted July 23, 2006 09:16 PM
Chip, this was a good post to get rolling.
As Chip mentioned, the proper take up tension
on any machine is an integral part in keeping
these machines operative for many years in the
future.
When I purchased my GS second hand about
12 years ago, I had brought it over to
the Elmo facility when they were located
in New Hyde Park, N.Y.
At the time,Tony was still in charge
of the repair department, and parts were available at
that location. Since then, the company had relocated
a little further east in Plainview,Long Island
and the building was dormant for years.
It is only recently, within the past two months
that the Elmo sign has been
removed from the building.
At the time we had a discussion
and spoke about how many collectors
had made modifications
to their GS machines.
First,he was not in favor of reels/(spools)
that used more than 1200 feet of film
at a time. He remarked that the GS
was not designed to run full length
professional feature length films,
in excess of 1200 feet at a time and
believed that only through offerings
by Derann and some other companies
which this phenomenon of Super spools
had become popular.
Aside from this topic on take-up,
the projector was not designed
to take a 24v 250W lamp.
This was a big mistake,
and it would place undo stress
on the transformer and logic board.
He did agree that a different design for
the film tensioner was needed, especially
noting that these plastic half shape bow tie
devices would eventually wear and scratch film.
Another machine worth noting is the popular
Eumig. Two years before finding the GS,
I had met the head engineer from Eumig Electronics.
Mr. Poice told me that in order to keep
the Eumig's running for a long time, that it's
important to lubricate the films and keep
the heads clean and lubricated.
This emphasis is to reduce the drag of the film
over the film path. He said this would
ultimately keep the take-up in fine condition.
Winbert, I do not recommend the black plastic
Derann 600 foot spools for any take-up.
In fact, I dislike them even when I use
them to rewind the film back onto the reel,
because I find that those items
are the most unbalanced of any
reel that I have ever used.
Michael
--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted September 07, 2007 09:49 AM
September 7 2007
Take Up Reel Solutions Continue
In review of this post I made in July 2006, I must say that I am right on target with my diagnosis. In nearly 2 years of running the Towers I have had NO such problems releated to print transport caused by unbalanced reels.
Now there is the occasional capstan movement caused by the print being run. Those of us who have this experience know this is possible. So I filmguard the print in question once or twice through my Kelmar cleaner and it is better but still there. So with that, I live with it.
But now I have improved the Tower take up even more.
I have designed the Towers originally for 2000 foot capacity. But I have yet been able to find a bunch of 2000' large hub reels that are easily obtainable or affordable.
My solution as of today, was to purchase a case pack (10 pcs) of Goldberg 1600 foot super 8 steel reels. These I use as my house reels, as described in my earlier post. These are placed either on the crank rewinds and/or the Towers. They are NOT used as film storage.
For film storage, I use just about every 1200 foot reel ever made. I have some of the Plio Magic plastic, some of the Taylor steel large hub, and some of the Taylor blue small hub 1600' reels.
I have also condensed some of my longer playing features to those small hub plastic reels, so the entire features are on 2 big reels, saving 1 reel and 1 extra can. Now when I added everything all up, I think I saved $250.00 doing this. That's money I don't have to spend on two big reels and 1 can for future feature storage. Assuming that 2 of the Taylor steel large hub reels would be about $13.00 each, with a $6.00 can for storage, plus postage. Depending on the vendor figure 35-50 bucks saved per can and reel set.
I also would like to say something about Elmo shaft design. Elmo designed these machines in a timely cost cutting method. This is a general business decision. They also found in testing, one would assume, that standard reels on these shafts could be a problem. So in another good business decision, they invented their own lightweight aluminumum reel that rode the shaft well and was light enough to handle heavier acetate prints when loaded full.
I do not believe that Elmo designed these machines for anything more than the original maxaimum capacities that they built in. In other words, if you had an ST180-E or 600-D, then you were allowed to run anything up to but no more than 600'. Meaning these machines, and other going up the model line, were NEVER designed to be modified to do better.
So as a replacement to midification, we have the extend a reel devices. One was even by that name actually, "Extend A Reel" developed by Racine Films of Racine Wisconsin. I never saw one in operation, but I recall to this day seeing a brochure or magazine article in super 8 filmaker. There was alsoi David Adams Spondon Spooler, which I felt was designed really well. I bought one used, but it was DOA missing several parts with a broken worm gear drive motor. Sadly, my money and the product went to the local dump.
And today I have my Towers. Side by side, in my small booth, running and purring like newborn kittens happy at play.
Use the best reels in your collection, regardless of the equipment you have. It's as easy as spending a few hours fast forwarding and rewinding film. This you can do for free. And your payback, many fine easily run tightly spooled hours of big screen entertainment!
Chip Gelmini
September 7th 2007
Comments Appreviated
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