8mm Forum: Use of Metal Reels...Too Much Weight?

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Topic: Use of Metal Reels...Too Much Weight?

Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 30, 2007 10:33 AM

Hello All,

As the title says, I recently bought some beautiful Goldberg 1200-ft metal reels to compile some films on to.

The reels are stout and superbly made, but I am now wondering if they are 'too much of a good thing' for my Elmo St1200HD. A fully loaded reel is quite a lot heavier than a plastic equivalent and my concern is for the life of the belts and general transport parts in the Elmo, as compared to just using plastic reels.

I am used to heavy reels from my 16mm films; a 2000-footer starts to demand some effort, but with the Elmo just more delicate by comparison to my Eikis, I am wondering if I am overdoing it with the Goldbergs, much as I love the quality and tradition behind the brand. Or is there enough 'overhead' built into the Elmos that the extra load is 'accounted for' in the design?

Let me know of your thoughts and experiences with this.

Thanks,
Claus Harding.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted October 30, 2007 01:00 PM

Sounds like a valid point, but I wonder if your reels are significantly heavier than an Elmo metal 1200' reel, which Elmo must have considered OK. I'd volunteer to weigh an Elmo reel, but it might take me a few days as I need to find time to put some films currently on mine back on to their original reels.

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Adrian Winchester

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted October 30, 2007 01:14 PM

The 1200 was made to take these spools be they plastic or metal, in fact the genuine supplied Elmo 1200 spools are 100% metal and are probable the very best ones you could use. Generaly, unless every film you use is on a 1200ft spool it shouldnt effect the machune at all, if the take up belt is badly worn then as the spool fills it may stop, (ive had this happen myself after around a 1000 foot has been taken up) in which case a new belt should sort it. [Wink]

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 30, 2007 01:18 PM

Adrian, thanks for your thoughts,

I had quite forgotten that Elmo in fact offered a metal reel themselves; I have only run plastic over the years.

This being the case, I imagine I might be worrying about nothing, even if the Goldberg is possibly slightly heavier than the Elmo equivalent. But it never hurts to ask.

Best,
Claus Harding.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 30, 2007 02:27 PM

Hi Claus,
I think you may have a valid concern here. The Goldberg reels are made of steel, whereas the Elmo reels are made of Aluminum alloy. This means that the Goldberg reels are about 3X the weight and rotational inertia of the Elmo metal reels, and about 6X the weight and rotational inertia of plastic reels of the same size! I would stay with Elmo reels if you can, they are the best 1200ft metal reels you can buy. I have some Goldberg steel reels, and I do not like them for the reasons that you have cited.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 30, 2007 04:17 PM

Tom, Paul,
Thanks for weighing in; it seems I might have to go off the Goldbergs for the reasons I thought: the reels are bulletproof, but most likely much more in weight than the machine likes to pull. Pity, but it beats unneccesary repairs...

Best,
Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2007 10:21 AM

If you build a spooling system as I have, any reel works just fine no matter the size or weight. Because the spooling system is made from 35mm projector parts, that are capable of spooling over 55 pounds of physical weight (for example a 6000' 35mm reel that has 3 x 2000' made up - similiar to one of our super 8 1200 footers that has 3 x 400) at the rate of 90 feet per minute. By means of a dc variable speed motor and related speed control switch, this unit can be set to 12 to 19 percent speed that equals the flow of super 8. My unit presently runs 1600 foot Goldberg reels and I have no trouble using them at all.

It is also important to remember how full are your reels? Simply look at the gauges on the flanges. Note that on a Goldberg reel, the "1200'" capacity mark is approx 1/2 inch from the outside edge. So if your reel is full to the brim, then it is overloaded. Logic says this guide is put there to help with slightly loose take up when it happens above 1,000 feet as suggested above.

Finally, what is the condition of your print as well as the belts. If the sprockets have been pinched then the print will never wind tight during take up mode on any reel or any machine due to the film damage. Once this happens, the only way to correct this is to replace the print.

I know not everybody can't build the Towers for changeover like I have. But I found this post interesting and wanted to comment.

If your prints and belts are good, your Goldberg reels should be OK on the projectors. Just don't overload them and be on guard while running them just in the event a problem begins.

While I agree the Elmo reels seemn to be the best made for the projectors, I must admit I don't care for them that much. I much prefer a reel like the Goldbergs that have the four large holes inside the hub. How cool is that to have these available for your fingers when working with the reel? From pulling out of a can or sliding on to the shafts! What a grip! You can't do that with the Elmo reel.

Thanks for reading!

cg

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2007 10:59 AM

I've found , more often than not, that those metal goldberg reels are too heavy when full for the st1200s to take up unless the takeup belt is absolutely new and everything is tight. I've had to use the goldbergs to make up the composite reels ...but plastic reels for takeup. The weight doesn't seem to hurt rewind that much.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2007 11:57 AM

The Elmo reels have the little grippers which grab the film and aid lacing that way.

I agree with Paul on this one. The Goldbergs are very heavy indeed compared to the lightweight Elmo spools made of aluminium and yes I would think they could well cause slippage inside the ST when full.

I had a couple of Goldbergs which a feature came on from the US and I noticed on the GS how much slower it ran in rewind once the spool was about half full. I also noted that the spools had quite a lot of slop in them at the hub so that they rubbed grooves into the plastic arm covers.

Not a lover of them sorry [Frown]

Believe it or not the Elmo aluminium spools are also lighter than some plastic spools too.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 31, 2007 01:54 PM

Well, that's as close to a consensus as one could hope for, so the Goldbergs will be relegated to backup status (I am glad I asked before I bought more.)

Now the inevitable question: does anyone still stock the Elmo aluminum 1200eds? I am perfectly happy to go with some plastic ones, but the aluminum ones would be nice if available. I have checked with the suppliers I know here in the US, and I have not seen them. If anyone can point me to a source, I'd appreciate it, and then I'll stop nagging about the reels for good [Big Grin]

Regards,
Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 31, 2007 02:37 PM

Claus, Quite often Derann, Paul Foster and Classic have these in stock. Another good way of obtaining them is via eBay. They seem to turn up there a lot especially on the German site.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 31, 2007 03:25 PM

Excellent.
Thanks Kevin.

Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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