8mm Forum: The Curse of the Chemical bath ...

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » The Curse of the Chemical bath ...

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: The Curse of the Chemical bath ...

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 01, 2007 09:57 PM

I just recently got a copy of "Emperor of the North", a great film from the early 70's (Lee marvin).

The strange thing is that it has perfect FOX logo, then quickly changes to very mediocre color. In fact, quite faded. Then, in the last four minutes of the film, the color returns to almost pristine ...

This is my theory. I really don't know for a fact, but I bet that when it went through the chemical baths, it was on an automatic, or computerized system. Type in the number of feet in the feature, and push go, the film starts out slow, then quickly speeds up as it goes through it's bath. Shortly before the end of the film, the counter slows down again, hence allowing the film to bathe longer in the bath.

If it was just the actual film and a Fox logo tagged on, the FOX logo could be great and the following film faded, but this wouldn't account for the last four minutes having great color.

At least that's my theory. Any other theories?

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 01, 2007 10:45 PM

Osi,

I wanna see some picture shots when the colour is faded and when it is prisitine....

I cannot believe there would be such condition unless you find splices within the reel.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 02, 2007 04:34 AM

Low level fogging at some point in the process would be my betting.
One thing they used to do was pre-flash some of these print stocks to control contrast. It maybe that the pre-flashing went wrong.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted November 02, 2007 10:15 AM

If the film processor slows down it will become dark, speeding up will cause it to go light. It must stay at a constant speed to stay even. Your film simply faded differently during the coarse of time. Pre-flashing the negative will cut down on contrast when making a dupe neg. You can also use a low contrast filter while shooting a print. There is a scene in EVIL DEAD 2 that was done this way as they lost the negative.

| IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 02, 2007 10:35 AM

This is why I love this forum, you learn something new everyday!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 06, 2007 01:03 PM

In making prints, both film processor and printers run at constant speed, now days up to 1000 feet per minute so a chance of control of print quality by machine speed is slight.

In making super8 prints, most labs use CORP (continous optical reduction printers) which take a 16mm internegative and make two prints (on 16mm) or four prints (on 35mm) in a single pass. At this stage it is too late to make light changes for corrections so the dupe negative must have been made with all scene to scene corrections printed in.

In the case of your print, it's possible that the original pre-print material was bad and that a new logo with good color was spliced on to the dupe negative and perhaps the last reel was in better shape than the rest of the picture. This can happen if the lab is forced to flash and dupe from a print rather than negative/internegative/interpositive materials.

As for computer control, it's used to control the processing machines and replentishment of chemicals, chemical temps and recircultation and record keeping. 35mm printer use computers and frame count control to apply light changes at scene changes in making answer prints and dupe negatives. Most release prints are made from duplicate materials which have all the corrections pre-printed in to the internegative from a corrected interpositive.

Internegatives nad interpositives have that orange dye mask which corrects for color shifts due to the dyes used in the film much like your old Kodacolor still camera negatives.

John

| IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 06, 2007 03:14 PM

The incredible John Whittle!

I did find it fascinating that the last four minutes or so returns to almost pristine color. The FOX logo was indeed spliced onto the beginning, but not by any seller of he film, as there are no splices on the actual film I have, it was added by the studio, a new logo for an old print.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2