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Topic: Picking apart the GS1200

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 14, 2007 11:34 AM

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The GS1200 is the ultimate super 8 projector. It has iconic status among super 8 collectors for a reason - it is a generally superb performer. So criticizing it is like criticizing the San Francisco bay bridge, the Eiffel Tower, or any other great piece of engineering work. But the GS, like everything in life, is not perfect. Just for fun, here are a few of the things I dislike about this otherwise superb machine:

Light spill from the top of the lamphouse. This lights up the room and cuts down on screen contrast. Elmo could have done a much better job of baffling the lamp house cover to block all the light, while permitting free air flow.

That flapping rear roller. Very tricky to adjust properly so that the auto threading release micro-switch is activated but the film does not scrape on the film chute.

The swinging lens mount. I know Kev will say that the screw adjustment enables you to fine tune the focussing across the picture, which is true. But the top to bottom focus is adjusted by those two screws in their sloppy holes on the lens mount- an almost impossible adjustment to carry out properly. Give me the fixed lens mount design of the Eumig's any time- precision machined at the factory, and nothing to go out of alignment.

The sound capstan roller. Elmo's design is a pretty small diameter on both the capstan and the roller.

Its weight. I know -weight means a solid design. But lifting the beast around is no fun. Elmo could have done more to cut the weight down.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 14, 2007 11:55 AM

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Always one to join in a decent chin wag this end coz its good to talk.

Last night I showed a very badly shrunken, even warped Super duper 8mm film on the GS1200 and had a bit of a problem. Because of the open guides exiting the machine the film kept flipping out of its guide path. On the Eumig 940 which has removable closed guide paths the very poor condition film ran perfectly.

To be fair the film was badly shrunken and out of shape acetate type, but it does prove one thing. All machines have plus and minus points not to mention loving owners like us eigh Paul.

Nothing to do with the GS this but I projected a shrunken 16mm feature recently on my Elf NT1 and the sound was wowing all over the place. Put the same film on the Bell & Howell TQ and perfect. My Elf does not like acetate shrunken films at all.

With the light spillage from the GS at least you can see to find the focus knob or a pint which is usually next to my machines. Seriously though, I had never noticed overspill from the GS1200 lamp house and we have used it here quite a bit recently.

If you look at my Eumig 940 clip on YouTube this also throws some spare light into the room.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlmQrAz9eQM

Incidentally, my own view in the busy cine 80’s was that owning a GS1200 was more about status than anything else. The majority of a Cine Club I used to go to had GS1200’s and my best mate had a little Bauer machine. He always felt out of it as if it was a case of a projector needed to show films at another club it was always the GS required thus eliminating a small number of members without GS machines projecting for us. Needless to say when I became chairman of said club it soon changed and everyone was given a chance of projecting with reasonable equipment obviously. I used to spend much time helping Eumig owners and the like fitting better lenses, making up cables for external amps which was fun and used to wind the GS brigade up no end. Thank goodness all that nonsense has long since stopped and we can get into some real film watching.

It never mattered who had Eumig, Elmo, Noris or whatever. The main thing, and I am sure we all agree is that we each enjoy our hobby in our own way.

I’m off to find some more jumpy films in the collection.

Happy days.
All very illuminating...

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 14, 2007 01:08 PM

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Light spill out of the top of the GS1200 varies dependent on the lamp that's being used. All the ESC and EJL lamps vary with regards to how much light leaks through the reflectors. If I get a dodgy one that lets too much out I stick a piece of black card through the handle and over the outlet - NOT on the outlet for obvious reasons. This cuts down the light spillage.

There are a number of potential weak spots with the GS1200 but thus far none have been catastrophic to any of my films. Unlike just about every other machine I've used unfortunately.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Eric Baucher
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 143
From: MD
Registered: Apr 2007

posted November 14, 2007 04:40 PM

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 14, 2007 04:45 PM

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The black card is a good tip John. Actually I am thinking of making a little black right angle metal air duct that would bolt to the top of the hinged cover of the GS. This would block all the spill light, with minimal reduction in exhaust air flow.
Of course that's going to push the weight of the machine up even higher! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Eric, I have always admired the ST1200's but never owned one. It seems like a beautifully designed and built machine.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Eric Baucher
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 143
From: MD
Registered: Apr 2007

posted November 14, 2007 04:48 PM

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I have a friend that says a 1200HD is a better machine (except for the EJL 200 watt lamp) because Elmo's craftmanship had started to go down at this point. The men behind the movies dvd says the 1200HD had better optical sound than the GS1200 does, and Eumigs have better lenses.....GS1200 have a rewind motor problem, selonoid controlls fail permanently when they go.......I had one person tell me that the original ST1200 is actually built better than the later ST1200's guess that old green one is better than I thought. *waits for everyone to start throwing rocks at him* [Smile]

[Smile]

.....and if your 1200hd had a 1.1 lens and was an M+O edition do you really wanna pay an extra $1000 for 50 more wats of light? just run your 1200hd through an amp and the money you save will help you get some extra films....

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted November 14, 2007 06:39 PM

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Actually I would agree that the old ST1200 is the best [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

I call mine "old reliable" a few weeks ago I took it to work to check out 100 odd Super8 films and over two days it got a lot of use and never missed a beat. The reason I used the ST instead of the GS1200 is that the GS is hernia material to move around. [Eek!]

[Eek!]

lately I have noticed an excessive amount of light spill onto the ceiling with using the Osram Xenophot 250 watt lamp its hardly surprising, [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

so I will be painting a bit of matt black onto the offending area soon "that might help" looking forward to here how Jon Addams is getting on with his Xenon Fumeo 9145 projector, I think that will make the GS1200 look like a dinky toy in comparison. [Wink]

[Wink]

Graham.

[Smile]

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 14, 2007 10:05 PM

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Funny, but I have a Eumig 810D with a terribly wiggly lens barrel. I'll have to take it apart and see what's become wonky inside. I WISH it were rock solid!

No such problems with the GS1200, except that as the lens warms up through the course of a reel the focus shifts. But that's pretty universal, isn't it?

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 15, 2007 02:44 AM

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You are right Graham. The GS1200 is nearly a dead weight (as my Dad would have called it) and I am seriously thinking of leaving it set up now in screen 2 and not moving it on and off the stand which will probably do the GS a bit of good also, although I can always do with the exercise.

I see on the box last night that swimming gives 3 times more exercise work out than a brisk walk. Me wonder’s how lifting the GS workout does in comparison?

Finding faults with our projectors also makes me wonder why we purchased them in the first place.
Hmm.. Finkin.
[Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 15, 2007 04:53 AM

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Great post Paul, it makes me wonder how, had the world been different and if electronic imaging had not become mainstream, things would have developed? If all the big money had been invested in super 8 projection, what would the Mk21 Elmo GS 1200 projector of 2007 look like?

How would the gates have been developed and the light sources? Would we have super thin film stocks and cartridge loading? Would super 8 have become the medium of choice for multiplex cinemas and would there be copious releases of super 8 features just as there are on DVD?

What a thought…

Mike

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 15, 2007 06:51 AM

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Interestingly if everything came out on Super 8 it would make the hobby less attractive. It's finding that elusive title or compiling cut downs to make a longer version that is part of the appeal.

With regards to the GS1200 shifting focus as the projector warms up I don't even have this problem with the HTI version. And you can guess how hot that machine gets!

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 15, 2007 11:08 AM

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OK, thank you John. It's a minor amount, but worth keeping track of. Nothing like the sloppiness in the Eumig barrel.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 15, 2007 11:33 AM

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I dont get much movement in the focus on my Xenon either. I have seen far more movement of focus due to varying stripe thicknes thanfrom heat.....bring back Kodak Laminate Stripe [Smile]

[Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 15, 2007 03:05 PM

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Bill. Some of the early Eumig 810D's had a better focus system with a slit in the side of the lens. Focus on these machine is super. The later ones had the blob on the side of the lens and this is the thing which wears smaller and gives probs I found.

Focus on the GS1200 with F1.0 lens was a blikin caper at the Film Fest I used to project at for a few years. With all sorts of stripe going through the gate from film makers I always had my fingers on the focus knob. For me I would rather have the F1.1 in it which is less of a problem here.

Ah those Film Festival happy days......

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 15, 2007 09:25 PM

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Yep, I've got a later Eumig (at least it still works -- it was stored in dusty hot conditions for awhile) with the dreaded blob on the side. And the focus messy.

However, I have another similar Eumig and maybe I can cannibalize from it.

Thanks for the anecdote, Lee. Besides, we're all single-screen projectionists, not cineplex start-and-flee-to-the-next-machine abandoners. So what's a little adjustment here and there?

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted November 16, 2007 05:27 AM

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Bill. Best I could come up with for my Eumig 824D was to keep the focus works clean and use some high temperature grease on the white knob thread which rests against the lens bobble. This does help to keep things moving and with a careful and very gentle tweak I can get away with focusing OK. I only use the 824D for standard 8 and one of my prized machines, so much so I have a special case made for it with French polish. All very posh.

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Eric Baucher
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 143
From: MD
Registered: Apr 2007

posted November 16, 2007 07:53 PM

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I never knew of the "blob" on the side of the lens, I have an 802D can someone explain that further? thanks.

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