8mm Forum: I Need Help With Eastman L.P.P.

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Topic: I Need Help With Eastman L.P.P.

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 20, 2008 04:32 PM

I have recently started to make room in our crowded refridgerator, having stored a good deal of my optical sound prints in there, (Thank goodness for a VERY patient wife!)
and I have tended to store almost all optical sound prints in there ...

A good deal of the optical sound prints have very good to perfect colors and my question is this ...

I understand that Eastman L.P.P. wasn't always listed as such in the beginning and also later on. A number of these perfect color prints, (ranging all the way back to 1977) may very well be eastman L.P.P. but I have no real idea.

Is there any list, whether on the internet or otherwise, that gives all the listings of Eastman L.P.P. in all it's varieties?

Eastman was given a number of numbers, (28, 32 ect.) and perhaps some of these were L.P.P.

Any help chaps?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 20, 2008 05:36 PM

Hi Osi,
Theres some stuff on here that may help:

http://paulivester.com/films/filmstock/guide.htm

-Mike

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 21, 2008 08:14 AM

Hi Osi i think the odd optical is on lpp but the majority are sp and in the uk many seem to be much on the way here though on the whole they came in from the states anyway.
There are odd ones holding up well but even prints of little shop of horrors from 86 and over the top 87 are showing signs of moving now and well past 82 lpp.
I`d just enjoy them as long as they last as often as you know super prints and cheap enough usually.
As we have said on here before it seems less care may have been taken with the washes etc as they were considered throw away items, all of those lovely films that were just burnt !!!!!! painful etc.
Best Mark.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 21, 2008 09:56 AM

True, very true ...

I get the feeling that those earlier ones may have been an early LPP. "Hooper" (1977) has no fade whatsoever, "Just You and Me Kid" (1979) is the same, while "Gorky Park" (1983) has the dreaded pink; great film, terribly quick fade.

Which is why when I get a unfaded optical, I store it in the fridge. I have found that the prints, struck in the 70's have tended to hold up incredibly well, with few exceptions. I would love to know if it was one specific type of eastman that had the terrible fade properties, as we know that not all eastman (not even including LPP) are created equal.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted March 21, 2008 01:17 PM

Osi:

Are you speaking of Super Eight optical airline prints? I have many of them. I noticed my S8 eastman optical print of "The Earthling" is now turning but I have it on 16mm eastman and it's more stable. I have many James Bond film's on Super Eight optical and regular eastman stock. These seem to hold up well. I have "Thunderball" which is abridged (they all were for the airlines), "Diamonds Are Forever" "From Russia With Love" and "Live & Let Die". These Bond prints still have good color. From what I understand Cubby Broccoli supervised the quality of these airline optical prints and the pre-print was from original studio materials. I also have an odd reel from "Octopussy" in 16mm which is superb and that's an airline print too. It's on unmarked LPP. Some of the LPP is unmarked and some is not. My Red Fox/Derann print of "The Time Machine" in Super Eight was marked LPP from 1984. But my Super Eight Red Fox/Derann print of "The Black Stallion" is unmarked stock but also from 1984. I assume this print also is on LPP because it has fantastic color quality. LPP came in around 1982. But Kodak was experimenting with emulsions and dye couplers before that time so (unmarked) low fade LPP stock could go back further than 1982 and the 1982 version of LPP low fade. My eastman stock airline print of "The Golden Seal" seem's to be holding up well at this point. I think Mark Todd is right when he mentioned the quality of the lab processing. I think the longevity of SOME of these regular eastman prints holding their color is because of better processing. Especially in the rinsing phase. Quality control. Depending on the title, good lab work or really bad "hurried" poor lab work. The other factor would indeed be storage and humidity aspects. In 16mm format my print of "Hardly Working" is not on LPP but that stock that look's like the 4B kind. I think that is a slitter's mark and not a stock designation but this Jerry Lewis print has beautiful color. It's a 1980 theatrical and I think it's either unmarked LPP or Kodak was indeed experimenting with the emulsion's at that time (1980-81) I also think that Jerry Lewis might have very well supervised the laboratory work on the 16mm and 35mm theatrical print's of this title. I think he might very well supervise the lab work on ALL of his film's. Being the director and total filmmaker of this project he wanted quality control lab work on this title since it was his comeback film. The color is fantastic on this unmarked stock Kodak theatrical. It must be an early form of LPP "Low Fade" stock.

Best, Tom

[ March 21, 2008, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Tom A. Pennock ]

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 21, 2008 06:37 PM

Good info Tom ...

Gad, I'm hoping to find a good color copy of "Golden Seal", as I remember this being a truly lovely film.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom A. Pennock
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Battle Creek, MI. USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted March 21, 2008 09:06 PM

Hi Osi:

Yes, the cinematography is beautiful in this film. Not sure if ALL the Super Eight airline prints are as good as the one I have. I bought many airline print's from Ray Courts years ago. There was a beautiful 16mm unmarked stock print on e-bay of "The Golden Seal" recently and it definately was low fade. It went really low in price too. Most likely unmarked LPP.

Regard's, Tom

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 21, 2008 11:26 PM

Have you got " Brady`s Escape " Osi , I think its also called the long ride. on optical, really enjoyed that one when I had it.
Best Mark.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 22, 2008 05:37 PM

Never even heard of that one! But then, this isn't surprising, as anything released during the years that optical sound super 8 was produced, are likely to either exist or have existed in the past on Super 8.

I think the first year for Super 8 optical was most likely 1967, as I verified three films existing from that year on optical super 8.

Point Blank (Lee marvin) Got that one
Casino Royale (original)
Jungle Book (Disney)

I have never seen any others from before that year.

Anybody know any others earlier?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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