8mm Forum: Can I believe my eyes? Customer's 8mm reel plays backwards!

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Topic: Can I believe my eyes? Customer's 8mm reel plays backwards!

Kim Clark
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Bainbridge Island, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted July 15, 2008 11:25 PM

I am about to reveal quintessential newbieness, I'm afraid. But I can't figure this one out.

I placed an ad to transfer 8mm tapes to DVD and found a lot of people out there have standard and super 8 reels they want to transfer. One thing led to another (and many transactions on ebay) and I'm trying my hand at my first standard 8 transfer. Dang, one of the 50' tapes I spliced onto the master reel shows people moving backwards! On inspection, the emulsion side of the film on this reel is opposite the others. Doesn't this mean the customer must have shot the roll with the camera upside down, and then flipped the tail end of the roll to the front, giving backwards motion?

Clueless in Seattle

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 16, 2008 03:04 AM

Transfer it backwards and then reverse it in editing software.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted July 16, 2008 04:02 AM

Have you checked with trhe customer..... does he want it as it is , or forwards?

Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted July 16, 2008 11:01 AM

But any film can be projected upside down and backwards from the tail direction, and since the emulsion was on the wrong side, I think this is what has happened. Reversal film cannot be shot under any circumstance that I know of with the emulsion on the wrong side -- the backing would block the image.

Since Kim mentions the camera being possibly upside down, I think that a simple removal, rewind, and re-edit of this stretch will resolve all.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 16, 2008 12:19 PM

Kim, I have to agree with Bill. The film has been spooled the wrong way.

I once transfered hundreds of reels of 8mm for someone and it was amazing how many had been spooled so that they were ready to project upside down / end to start, etc.

Don't know how they managed it, really!

Anyway, I just assumed it was a mistake, re-spooled the film the right way round, transfered it and eveyone was happy! [Smile]

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Kim Clark
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Bainbridge Island, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted July 17, 2008 12:04 AM

Bill and Rob, and all, thanks for your Replies.

Again, I'm ready to be corrected, but (Bob and Rob,) seems to me that there's only two ways to run a clip through a projector while keeping the sprocket holes lining up with the projector claws, and I tried them both. For your average joe film it produces:
1) an image with people walking normally (emulsion side *away* from the bulb)
2)Or, flipping the film bass-ackwards ("artsy"), with the emulsion side *toward* the bulb which produces people walking backwards and upside down. Do you agree?
- - Funny thing about this reel is that the customer delivered the reel in configuration #2 yet the people were walking rightside up! (and backwards)
I was never good at Rubick's cubes, but I only can imagine these two configurations. See my dilemma?
Yes, I can reverse the motion in Premiere, but I'd like to understand what's possible, especially before talking to the customer, and this discussion is helping in that regard. Thanks.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 17, 2008 06:14 AM

Hmmm, yep, I can see the confusion!

If this stretch of film is the wrong way round you would have to wind it onto another spool (say, use a smaller spool on the take up arm of the projector and wind it onto that).

But if it is also the wrong way round (emulsion wrong way) then rather than wind it on by lacing it to, say, the bottom of the take-up spool and turning clockwise, you would have to lace it up on the top of the take-up spool and wind it anti-clockwise.

Then when you've wound the whole 50' onto the take-up spool, take off the take-up spool and put it on the feed arm so that the film sprockets are the right side for the projector; the film should now be at the beginning and turned round the right way.

[Eek!]

Does that make any sense ?!?

I think I've got that right, but yes it is a bit of a Rubik's cube!

Anyone want to correct me on that???

Maybe John has the right idea [Wink]

And maybe it is worth checking that the customer doesn't want it the wrong way round - you never know!!!

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted July 17, 2008 07:57 PM

As long as the emulsion is in focus during the transfer (hint hint), reversing or flipping can definitely fix the job later, so there's not much risk here.

Kim, sounds like a really unusual deal. If it were double-perf 16mm, that would be different, but...

Rob, I can't do a Rubik's cube, so forgive me for ignoring your confounding analysis! [Wink]

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Kim Clark
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Bainbridge Island, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted July 17, 2008 11:08 PM

Ha-Ha, I'm relieved that at least someone understands my confusion [Eek!]

Rob, I think I follow your description and I *think* that I tried what you described. Just to make sure, though, do we all agree with
<<...there's only two ways to run a clip through a projector while keeping the sprocket holes lining up with the projector claws>> as I stated in a previous post? That seems to be my problem in a nutshell right there...

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