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Topic: Using 8mm negative film from pro8mm

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 01, 2008 04:05 AM

Hi all,

I am being offered 8mm cartridges from pro8mm (www.pro8mm.com). As you may have known all pro8mm carts are negative films.

The carts does include process but not tele-cine. My questions are:

1. How much is the cost for tele-cine?
2. If I consider telecine is too expensive, what will I get if the carts are processed only? can I see the pictures?
3. How do you see the result of film taken by negative? compared to the reversal stocks
4. What is the benefit of using negative stocks?
5. How is the telecine process is done.

thanks

--------------------
Winbert

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

posted October 01, 2008 05:02 AM

Pro 8....seriously expensive. Stick to Dwaynes; cheap film-stock & processing.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 02, 2008 11:00 AM

Winbert, the Pro8mm product line is available online and definitely includes reversal stocks repackaged from Eastman 100D or Fuji, as well as the 3 normal Kodak super 8 reversals. Their prices are quite in line with anyone else in the business. Custom manufacturing a film is expensive. My recommendation is to stick with the normal Vision negatives if you're shooting for telecine, and stick with local labs and companies if any are available. If you continue with Pro8mm, you might negotiate with them a price that excludes processing since you're halfway around the world so you can use a local facility.

A Pro8mm price without telecine means the developed film is returned to you, pictures fully visible, but without conversion to a video format. The pictures will appear reversed on an orange base much like a 35mm still negative looks. The advantage of a negative is the ability to duplicate the film (lost these days because nobody is doing that), and more importantly, a wide exposure latitude permitting correction after-the-fact. The only way to properly view such a film is to have it transferred to video.

Super 8 telecine costs range from approx. US$.08 to $.50 per foot, depending on which of many technologies you use. Here's a quick list in increasing order of quality:
-- Do-it-yourself aim-the-camera-at-the screen. Expect excessive cropping, vignetting, uneven illumination, and shutter flicker.
-- telecine projector into a dedicated camera (analog, can be recorded into a digital video deck). This is the oldest and still most common professional tool.
-- optical capture device such as the Roger Evans/MovieStuff equipment that combines a modified projector with a digital camera. Amazing results for lesser equipment cost. New options exist for High Def.
-- Rank Cintel flying spot scan transfers. This is what Pro8mm offers.
-- Spirit scanner to High Definition.

Here's the most important question: Are you shooting film for the purpose of video production (then use negative) or are you desiring to project it yourself (then use reversal only)?

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 02, 2008 10:15 PM

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the explanation.

No I am not even a movie maker, I am more doing for my family documentation. But my interest comes after an Ebay auction of a cart pro8mm (processing include) for $0.99/cart which until the end no bid was made. So I might get it.

But after calling pro8mm and saying that the cart was indeed include process and they still honour it but it didn't include telecine process, I decided to cancel my bid. It is useless for me if I got only the negative pictures.

So did yo say there is a telecine projector (projecting positive image from negative)? How does it look like and what brand?

than ks

--------------------
Winbert

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 03, 2008 11:10 AM

Do an Ebay search for Telecine, and you'll no doubt end up with auctions for businesses providing the service, while the odd 5-bladed projector will also turn up. Elmo made a line of such projectors. The only time I've seen them on Ebay, they were very, very expensive, to the point where MovieStuff equipment was comparable in price but better in image.

The flip from negative to positive, and color correction, is done electronically / digitally.

It sounds like it's not for you unless you get thoroughly bitten by a filmmaking bug.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 03, 2008 01:02 PM

Andec does positive prints from the negative stocks:

http://www.andecfilm.de/en/e_s8_neg_pos.htm

This would be a neat thing to try, but the way I'm used to making films it would be a real headache. I'd much rather send them an edited negative and then get a finished projection print, but the idea of eyeballing a negative for review and editing sounds a little challenging. The added step of getting a positive workprint first is getting a little out of hand when it's really just for fun!

Still the same, the thought of shooting ASAs as high as 500 sounds tempting.

At my level of filmmaking, telecine is pretty much so I can send out a copy to friends or put a film on U-tube. This means shooting reversal and doing telecine off the wall. When I want a video copy from the start I just camcorder it.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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