8mm Forum: Ken Films - 200' vs. 400'

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Topic: Ken Films - 200' vs. 400'

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 21, 2008 08:14 AM

I have the 400ers of "3 Musketeers" and "Poseidon Adventure" and I must say they're only so-so. Naturally the colors are faded (not horribly) and the editing could've been better (no Christopher Lee footage at all in "Musketeers" save for a poor pan-and-scan image of him on the far side of the screen towards the end). Does anybody know if the scene selections is any better or different in Ken's 200ers (ie: "Sound Of Music", "The Robe", et al)? Wasn't sure if I should waste precious time and money hunting any of them down in hope of extending the 16-minute versions to 23/24-minute editions?

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Mike Tynus
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 135
From: Addison, IL, USA
Registered: Apr 2008

posted November 21, 2008 01:06 PM

Brad,
I just acquired a 200' copy of 3 MUSKETEERS with a group of films. It's a little worn and has faded, but I'll be happy to give you the film. Just let me know where to send it if you're interested.

So are you saying that the 200' editions of SOUND OF MUSIC and THE ROBE have different scenes from the 400' version?

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Marshall Crist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: San Pedro, CA USA
Registered: Oct 2008

posted November 22, 2008 02:29 AM

I am FAR from an expert on this topic, but find it interesting. I wonder why the 200' would ever have footage not in the 400'? The exception that comes to mind is STAR WARS, where the 200' was assembled well before the 400'. I would think that in most cases the 200' would just be a further cutdown of the 400'. Sometimes with good results (SQUIRM,) sometimes not (THE INCREDIBLE MELTING MAN.)

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 22, 2008 10:58 AM

Brad,

I believe Marshall is correct. Aside from "Star Wars", I can't think of a Ken 200 footer that had any different footage from it's bigger brother. The 200' "Patton's Speech" was packaged as a separate entity, one that could be added to the head of the 200' or 400' "Patton".

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 23, 2008 10:19 AM

Universal-8 did it often. The 400' "Big Brother" versions all seem to have scenes different from the 200'er. One example I seem to recall is the 400' version of "The Old Fashioned Way". When I watched it it seemed to be entirely comprised of the 'Sally Of The Sawdust' show-within-a-show sequence and none of the circus act stuff from the 200'er or Fields' mistakenly thinking the Grand Welcome at the train station was for him.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 23, 2008 04:36 PM

That's true of the Marx Brothers releases by Universal/castle Films. I found a good extra 45 or seconds on the 200ft "This is War" (from Duck Soup) that I added into the Duck Soup 400ft edition) Not much, but welcome!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Carter Bradley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 156
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Registered: Dec 2007

posted November 25, 2008 09:43 AM

The gentlemen are correct...except for Star Wars, material in the 200' and 400' versions are the same. In fact, it is obvious that Ken first edited the 400' versions, then edited them down to the 200' edition. Therefore, some 400' versions feature well-edited soundtracks, while some 200' versions contain abrupt soundtracks. I found it interesting that The Robe and St. Valentine's Day Massacre were first listed in catalogs as 200' versions, then the 400' versions were released later. But it is obvious the 400' versions had already been prepared, since once again, no new material can be found in the 200' reel.

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