8mm Forum: Optical Printing Jitter...Anyone else seen this?

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Topic: Optical Printing Jitter...Anyone else seen this?

Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 28, 2008 01:34 AM

I have a copy of "Terminator" which is perfect in color and sound but....every 4-5 seconds it seems there is a little jump in the frame. I checked it out on 3 machines but its the same on all so it doesn't seem to be a physical problem that I can tell. Has anyone else experienced this with any of their prints?

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted November 28, 2008 02:12 AM

Might be an issue with the optical printer in the lab when the original film was being duplicated. I have a print of a French film that suffers from that problem during reel 1. Not visible in the action scenes but quite irritating during the quiet credits.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 28, 2008 11:31 AM

Hey Alan - I have this same problem with a feature print of TWINS OF EVIL I recently bought from Derann. During the first half of the final reel the image jitters... I thought it was a problem the print was having in the projector gate but it does it on all my projectors. Someone must have been asleep at the lab!

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 28, 2008 12:22 PM

I think this kind of thing can go all the back to the original negative.

I have a 4x400 foot Derann print of "The Titfield Thunderbolt" that has a slight northward jump about every 5 seconds on the first reel.

The interesting part is I have a VHS of the same movie, and if you watch it carefully, you see the exact same bounce during this part of the tape.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 29, 2008 01:38 AM

What I was wondering is how the original owner didn't notice it...maybe he didn't care. I keep reaching for the framing lever...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 01, 2008 04:20 AM

In today's cinematography, jittering scenes even become a new trend, something like what we see on TV series "NYPD Blue". Sometime I got dizzy when watching this series... [Big Grin]

cheers,

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Winbert

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Mike Tynus
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 135
From: Addison, IL, USA
Registered: Apr 2008

posted December 01, 2008 05:27 AM

I have a print of SUSIE THE LITTLE BLUE COUPE that slides sideways back and forth and up and down. Also an odd reel from Die Hard that jitters and several times the image actually rolls up vertically all the way with the next frame rolling into place, like when you adjust the vertical control on a TV.

And as mentioned in another thread, THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN 400' digest apparantly had a jitter in the preprint material right after the opening credits, so it could be that all copies of this might jitter.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 01, 2008 05:20 PM

There can be a number of explanations for these problems. For example the SUZIE print may be slit narrow. Super8 prints are prepared either two up on 16mm stock and slit or four up on 35mm stock and slit. Since 4x8=32, there is waste of 1.5mm off each edge and thus no "factory" edge to the finished print. Two up 16mm are simply slit down the middle.

As for jumping, on BRIDE I would suspect possible shrinkage of the the negative or preprint material after the credits which would produce a printed in jump.

For the "roll up" problem, this is likely walking the sprocket.

Super8 prints were most commonly prepared via COR (continous optical reduction) where the 16mm negative was on a common shaft with either the 16mm double rank or four rank 35mm print stock. Any problem with this sprocket or a slight "wobble" in the shaft would introduce problems in the print stock. These printers are really wonders in that a single original negative is split two or four times and projected onto the print stock.

If the negative walked over the sprocket, then all the prints would have the out of frame movement. If the print stock was "picking" the sprocket then you'd get the jump which would be equal to the interval of the sprocket diameter on the printer.

If the problem isn't fixed by lubricating the print and it appears on more than one projector, it's likely printed in and unfixable.

John

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

posted December 03, 2008 03:51 PM

I bought a brand new print of the "Night At The Museum" trailer from Derann about a year ago, and it had the exact same jitter that Alan describes for "Terminator". I bought "One Froggy Evening" around the same time, and there was no jitter at all.

I would assume it was made with the same equipment, since both are recent Derann prints, so it must be just an occassional thing.

I can tolerate it on a trailer, maybe even a cartoon, but I don't know about a compete feature. It would probably give me a headache.

James.

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