8mm Forum: Ken-Red Fox- Derann

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Topic: Ken-Red Fox- Derann

Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005

posted March 17, 2009 08:14 PM

Thought i'd ask what is the best full length feature you have seen from Ken-Red Fox-Derann excluding any Disney releases. in the early to mid 80s!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 17, 2009 09:59 PM

Robert,

I can answer the Red Fox films portion of the question, without a shadow of a doubt!

Though they released some very good prints, (Poltergeist (flat version), Adventures of Robin Hood, (later sold by Derann). The best print award goes to ...

Hoppity Goes to Town!

Yep, hands down. I spent tons of time trying to track down a good print of this animated feature, (running into tons of abysmal Niles pink prints), and I had at first hoped to track down a Derann rerelease of this on great L.P.P. stock.

I fortunately tracked down both! (at the same time)

While the Derann certainly looked good, the Red Fox print truly stunned me! The Derann appeared slightly dupey. In some cases, very sublt stuff in the shadows was lost, while everything was crystal clear on the Agfa Red Fox print.

But I was truly stunned by how sharp and highly defined this print was from Red Fox! I truly wish I could put up some screen shots from it to show even the difference between the Derann and Red Fox.

I recently saw a very good 16MM print of Hoppity with pretty good color on it, (saved those screenshots, they were very good), and compared that with the same frames on the Red Fox Super 8 print, and It was like looking at cels put on top of the painted backdrops in some cases. I know that sounds hard to believe in a Super 8 print, but it was truly that good.

I believe it to be mainly because this print was manufactured from a first generation print of the original "Mr. Bug Goes to Town, (first title for Hoppity), which was, in fact, on the leader.

Hoppity, from Red Fox. Truly amazing!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005

posted March 18, 2009 05:41 AM

Osi,

I think you have started off a great debate, which is the reason for my posting, as I have always believed that first generation prints from Red Fox and Ken can only be the very best in quality that you can ever find. . Even surpassing an original 16mm copy of the same title. As you well know it is all down to the master material being used at the time?

Thou i know that Ken full length features are extremely hard to find on low fade stock (if they exist) which is really a big shame. If only the labs in the US used more non fade film stock or if LPP came along in the late 70s things now would be a whole different ball game.

With the MGM Ken full-length features does anyone actually own a print that is not a derann release that is on low fade stock? That would be something to compare with the derann release. Thou it does not surprise me that a Red fox print wins hands down on a LPP print as first generation, first run is always better and more importantly we all know how good Red Fox prints were compared to Ken and even Derann.

And another thing I do know that I have actually owned in the past an original Goldfinger, which was not a derann, release, thou I do not know to this day who produced it. Thou the print was outstanding a worth the £350 pounds it cost me.

I would say myself I would like to see the difference between a Red Fox release and a Derann release. As I assume that the Derann prints cannot be from the original inter positive negative source that was struck. Sharpness being one of them.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 18, 2009 10:11 AM

Robert, I can't be sure, but I have a feature print of "African Queen", and I think that this was released by Ken films, but I'm honestly not sure. It says regular Eastman, (not L.P.P.), but the color doesn't have a spot of fade. It's a lovely print. As good as the original Technicolor.

However, this isn't the sharpest print. OK for that era, (late 70's) but it's not Derann quality.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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