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Author Topic: Eumig S710-D running slowly
Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted December 13, 2009 07:42 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've bought a new projector now, an Elmo, to use as a main projector, but I still want to have this one running smoothly for my regular 8 needs, so I'm not giving in just yet.

And yes, I know theres already an old thread for this subject, but it's 3 pages of stuff now, so I thought I would rather create a new one and sum up the problem and what that has been done so far.

The problem:
My EUMIG S-710D runs too slowly. It is not noticeable on the picture, but is very audible. It can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8ZXBPadYo

Most comments I've gotten, plus my own evaluation of the speed, puts it at about 3-4 fps too slow.

Possible causes and what I've done:
* The drive discs are worn and needs to be sanded or/and cleaned. The drive/motor ball also needs sanding/cleaning.

I've done this and it improved the speed slightly, but it's still alot too slow.

* The entire projector is stiffened in the grease and needs to be re-lubricated.

Done, had no effect on the speed, but made it run smoother.

* Pivot bushes are stiff/broken.

I did all tests suggested to me on the pivot bushes and also lubricated them. Had no effect on the speed.

* The speed control assembly need re-adjustment.

The only thing I've not tried yet, and the reason that I still need some more help. Martin has been so nice as to repeat his post on how to do this at least 10 times, but I'm still abit shy on the technical English. [Smile]

Here's the post in question:

"The speed range of the Eumig 8xx is set by a large, shiny-metal screw just above the shaft that carries the two rubber-faced drive disks. This runs through a slot in black metal plate through which the 50/60 Hz switch passes. It clamps a shiny-metal bar through another slot. The further down this bar is, the faster the projector will run. Usual top speed is in the range 27.5 to 28 fps. "

So I've edited my picture of the projector to see if I'm on the right track.

http://bjoergen.org/vault/Projectoredited.jpg

Please have a look at the following picture and tell me if I'm wrong.

---

Also, I had a thought as to WHY it runs too slow. It's a dual projector, both Super and Standard 8mm. Now, Standard 8 frames are alot smaller than Super 8 frames, meaning that it takes less speed to make R8 run at 24fps than it does with S8. Could it be that the previous owner adjusted the speed to run R8 smoothly at 24 fps, and therefore, slowing down the Super 8 setting?

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted December 13, 2009 08:21 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The question of whether the machine is running Standard 8 or Super 8 has NO bearing on the speed. There is no such thing as setting the speed for Super 8 or Standard 8.
The film transport sprockets and claw take care of the difference in frame size.
The bright screw in question is part of the speed change slider behind the Speed change knob.It is visible behind the speed change discs. The yellow arrows you have drawn do point to the correct area.
John Cappazzo's post in this thread
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005044
(which refers to the S802 which uses the same disc drive arrangement)is nearer the mark. I referred in a previous post on another thread to physically pressing down one side of the motor while it was running so that the drive ball moved closer to the disc, making better contact. If the projector then speeds up, the problem is as John suggests.
However, if adjustment of the speed slider solves the problem, all well and good.
Martin.

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted December 13, 2009 08:53 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi!

I already tried the solution that John refers to in the thread you linked, but it slowed it down even more, even with the slightest pressure. I'll see if I can manage to test the speed control tonight and get back to you with results.

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged

Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted December 14, 2009 09:31 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK!

I've checked the place in question, and there is no screw. There is one screw which is fastening the motor to the chassis, but that's it.

Here's a close up:
http://bildr.no/view/546659

I've read the guide 10-20 times now, but I cannot figure it out, because there is no screw where the guide says.

Need I point out that the guide also is for Eumig 8xx while i have Eumig 710?

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted December 14, 2009 01:11 PM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your picture is fine; it's just that the Screw head (about 7.5 mm diameter) is hidden behind the boss of the drive discs!
This picture shows the assembly outside of the machine

 -

From there it should be obvious, but if the screw is missing the speed will be wrong. The screw locks the two sliding parts (the adjustment knob and the ball adjustment fork) together in the right relationship to get the correct speed variation.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted December 14, 2009 01:36 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Then the screw is in fact missing, because there's nothing behind the big boss there. There's a large hole, but that's it.

There's no indication (screw marks etc.) indicating that there's ever been anything there either.

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 14, 2009 01:40 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian, it seems to me that if you make/put a new screw on that place you will fix your projector.

regards,

--------------------
Winbert

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted December 14, 2009 01:41 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, in that case; does anyone have a similar model and can take measurements of said screw?

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted December 15, 2009 05:29 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian,
Email me ... blagdonian(at)btinternet(dot)com

Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

 |  IP: Logged

Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted December 15, 2009 05:46 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have sent you a mail, Martin [Smile]

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged



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