8mm Forum: 1600' reels

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Topic: 1600' reels

Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 07, 2009 07:36 PM

Have any of you ever tried to use a reel such as this on a GS-1200:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370286020696
How well do they handle the film and work on those machines?

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Greg Marshall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 612
From: Nashville, TN USA
Registered: Sep 2008

posted November 07, 2009 09:50 PM

I've used them on my ST1200, they handle fine for my needs. They do not hold 1600 feet of film, though... more like 1400-1500, a full reel will give you a 90-minute program.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 07, 2009 11:19 PM

1600' in polyester base only!

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 08, 2009 09:21 AM

I would be very careful using these reels.

I have some of my films stored on these filled right to the edge. And I do mean right to the edge. I'll call these reels "small hub."

When I transfer a movie off of the small hub reel on to my Goldberg 1600 foot reel, it's not as full as the small hub. I'll call the Goldberg a "large hub" reel. It's designed like the 16mm steel reels. It has the large finger holes inside the hub for easy handling.

And for those who don't know...take a look at the footage guides on the outside flange.

The maximum capacity is usually underlined. And note the UNDERLINE is usually 1/2" below the outside of the flange diameter.

In theory of course, designed this way to prevent film spillage with flange contact during the last final feet of film transport.

So if you're past [above] that underline, your reel is over filled.

As for the small hub reels, they're OK for film storage. But they don't go on any of my projector or Tower shafts directly. Just on the rewind bench.

-cg-

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 09, 2009 10:43 AM

So Chip, why only storage? What if you needed more than 1200' feet but didn't fill it to the brim, would the small hub reel be OK? I understand the danger of overfilling, which this reel is inviting. Hey, the way they figure it, the Elmo 1200' reels should have been advertised as 1318' reels. [Wink]

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Kurt Gardner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 193
From: San Antonio, TX
Registered: Aug 2005

posted November 09, 2009 11:57 AM

Yes, I have some of them in blue. They're really soft plastic and they bend all over the place.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 09, 2009 12:52 PM

Q: Why only storage?

A:

Before my Towers, I tried these reels for spooling during projection on my 1200HD machines. They're OK.

My preference has always been for steel or aluminum.

One of the critical areas is reels that wobble. As they rotate clockwise - they also move in and out. Some of this can be very bad. The contact with film edge to flange during wobble is like how a boat can rock on water.

In studying the take up design of the 1200HD and other Elmo machines, it is during wobble and film edge contact that produces some of the worst drag I have seen. These Taylor small hub reels aren't the worst for this. Some of the large hub Plio Magic reels are the worst offenders. And that's too bad because the Plio Magic 1200 foot reels are some of the lightest weight reels around and you would think the lightest one would be the best for the projector design.

I also think my answer is because of personal choices.

I like the Elmo line of super 8 projectors. I just wish they made a tighter fitting shaft rather than what they came up with. One can assume they had to make a business decision and the aluminum reel for 1200 foot is actually quite good. But.....just try and buy them new nowadays. Nearly impossible. And, even when they were easily available, too damn costly.

In conclusion my Towers have solved these problems for me here. The lower take up reels are 3.5 feet further away from the bottom sprocket on the 1200HD. If there is flange contact, it happens down below far from the sound head so there is no wow or flutter caused by film droop or bounce.

Further more, the allen nut retaining collar on the outside of the reel on the new brass adapter ("my next long playing unit" post) pushes 360 degree pressure against the outside hub of the reel. This permits full 360 degree pressure on the inside flange to the rear of the brass adapter. And the locking collars keeps it a snug fit.

I have found that, the flipper switch at the end of the shaft only puts minimal pressure and only on the side of the reel that the pressure is applied.

And for those of you who don't know, there's a reason why that flipper switch goes both ways. Since plastic reels have thicker flanges and steel have thinner - it can go the direction that is required.

You can also find the right key hole that works the best. On every reel there is always at least one key hole that will allow the straightest rotation with the flipper positioned in the proper direction given the thickness of the flange as described above.

What I usually do is take the new empty reel, step through the key holes. When I spin and find the best key hole, I mark it with a red marker. On both sides. Every time that reel is put to the shaft, the red key hole is aligned with the key on the shaft.

And yes, I still do that today even with my Towers.

My answer was long but honest. Hope that does it for you.

[Smile]

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted November 09, 2009 01:03 PM

Chip,

Good info. I too tried some of the plastic 1600-footers (the blue Taylor ones) and they are not only cheaply/badly made, but wobbly (I did try both ways on my ST1200.) I sent them back.

I think the answer for longer reels these days is one of two more expensive options:
Either the long ones available from Wittner or the custom jobs from our Greek friend from a little while ago.

Claus.

--------------------
"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 09, 2009 01:34 PM

Kurt Gardner

The soft plastic reels can bend easily if rewinding by hand with cranks.

Watch the brake tension on the left side rewind crank. If the tension is too strong they will warp badly.

It's too bad these small hub reels have problems.

Ironically, the design looks like the Nuclear warning label. Is that why they're not green? [Big Grin]

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 11, 2009 10:49 AM

Claus

I think the best reels on the market are the ones from Goldberg. I know a few collectors who don't like them because of their weight.

However, if your motor and take up belts are good and you do not over fill them, I think most big reel projectors should handle them OK.

Of all the reels I have used directly on the ST1200 machines, these Goldberg's come in 1st place. They turn kind of straight, and are readily available through the Goldberg company. Contact them and ask for Randy Erlick. He will sell to private collectors as few or as many reels you need.

Best bet: Order by the case of 10 and save money. Be prepared to be old fashioned. No paypal, money order in advance. They do take credit cards, but that requires faxing a signature for the sale.

Chip Gelmini

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted November 11, 2009 03:32 PM

You gentlemen never fail to provide excellent technical information in splendid detail. Having never used any 1200' reel ever, this is more than enough to steer me in a helpful direction.

By the way, Chambless Cine Equipment sells Goldberg 1200' reels in a can for $30. See
http://www.chamblesscineequip.com/catalog/projectors.htm

Thank you Chip for incredible detail, and Claus, Kurt, and Greg also.

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 12, 2009 05:27 PM

GOLDBERG REELS FOR NEWBIES

First:

These are NOT keyed on BOTH sides. You may find this confusing when using them on crank rewinds. In the given example, we FAST FORWARD a print, then REWIND IT:

1. Empty GB reel on the right crank.
2. Full reel on the left crank.
3. Come over the top left to right sprockets to you emulsion up.
4. Crank the reel.
5. Remove empty reel left side.
6. Place GB reel on left side. Sprockets to you.
7. Counter clockwise, GB reel sends film from bottom side.
8. As you go across to the right crank, give 1/2 twist putting sprockets away from you.
9. Put on right side reel, clockwise rotation, sprocket away from you emulsion side up.
10. Rewind the reel.

When done, film is fine as normal. Just slightly different and will take getting used to.

Only on the rewinds when you edit film with GB reels will you find this twist required on rewind. When the GB reels are on your projector arms they will be otherwise normal.

While I recommend the GB reels, this is a personal choice you have to make as I have. GB reels are far better than anything else I've used that is currently available. As always though, the GB reels are only reels and will not be 100% perfect.

CG

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted January 04, 2010 01:13 PM

An update on these large reels.

Elmo 1200' reels are exactly 12 3/16 inches in diameter, while a Goldberg steel reel is 12 1/4". Of course, the Elmo's light weight, flawless engineering, and full-width spindle hole makes them very stable and less prone to wobble.

Any reel with only punched metal for the spindle hole, or a metal insert on a plastic reel, will have less stability because of the all the weight riding on the small width of those edges. Try PLastic Reel Corp or even a Goldberg here.

But the current Taylorreel products are quite curious (beyond the fact that they provide an address for recycling! Should have been mine!). I came across a large-hub Taylorreel that fits precisely nothing I currently own because the diameter is a whopping 13" even. Also curious is the small-hub 1600-footers, which according to Vincent Zabbia's auctions, is 12.75" across. Can anyone confirm that yours are the same? And can you really get these on a GS-1200? I'd expect them to scrape like crazy at best and not fit at worst.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 04, 2010 01:27 PM

I think Chip has the right idea. If you want to use more than a 1200ft reel go to an external motorized reel system.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted January 05, 2010 10:53 AM

Paul, I agree with that (for all the reasons wonderfully given here) but I simply can't do that. I have NO space, limited engineering skills, and can't collect enough features to make it worthwhile (just too expensive for me). So for the odd long run, an extra-capacity reel is attractive. In actuality it's a want, not a need. (Well, the whole hobby is a want, not a need, but nevermind.)

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted January 05, 2010 05:39 PM

I have a few of these 1600' blue plastic reels and I can echo the previous comments...

They do wobble. (some worse than others)
I do use them mostly for storage. I've taken the advice of some to use my ONE 1200' Elmo reel for projection and a Goldberg for take-up or vise versa.
I am glad to have them just in case I need 1600'.

I would like to get some more Elmo reels but they tend to set you back a bit!

Bill

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