8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Issue with my scope

- UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Issue with my scope
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 12, 2014 12:06 PM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi i bought a scope lense on ebay and then purchased a scope holder for it.I seem to be having a problem though when i put it in the holder it doesnt seem to square the edges i.e the picture on the screen looks like the inside of the lense oblong.When i put the lense right up against my current Elmo lense it is much much better but still a slight rounding on the top right hand corner.Also when i try to set any type of distance it doesnt seem to do anything only if i use the Elmo's own focusing. Finally the picture is massive and wraps around my wall dont seem to be able to make it smaller to fit the screen again except i put the lense right up against the origional Elmo lense. I would really appreaciate any advice in possibly overcoming these issues as i have a full feature scope arriving in post this week and would like to watch it properly [Smile] Many thanks in advance.

 |  IP: Logged
Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 12, 2014 12:52 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
William
Ideally the scope lens should screw onto the projector lens but if this is not possible it should be as close to it as possible. What type/make of scope lens have you got?

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 12, 2014 12:59 PM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
-

Hi it is this one here called a Mosty. The holder i have holds it about 3 inches from the lense if you like i could post pic of it if would help.

[ January 13, 2014, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: William Fleming ]

 |  IP: Logged
Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 12, 2014 01:16 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes that's a big lens designed for use with 16mm/35mm projectors, so you will need some sort of holder/bracket. You really need advice from someone like Maurice Leakey who has an Elmo and I'm sure has a scope lens that he uses with it. I have a similar lens (Proskar) but I only use it on my 16mm machines as I don't have any 8mm scope films.It would be too heavy to fit directly onto an 8mm projector lens I think.

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 12, 2014 01:20 PM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah so my initial problem starts with the size of the thing [Smile] maybe i need to try and swap it for a 8mm lense this might help. I will wait and hope for Maurice to view this thread with some further advice but in the mean time i appreciate the help you have given so far.

 |  IP: Logged
Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

- posted January 12, 2014 04:05 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
CALLING MAURICE LEAKEY!!

 |  IP: Logged
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 12, 2014 04:57 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At three inches your scope lens is too far away, it sounds as if you are suffering from vignetting i.e., some of the light is being trapped. Ideally the lens should be screwed into the backing lens, as 35mm cinema projectors were once.

I have no experience of scope on Super 8, only 35mm in cinemas and 16mm at home. I have three anamorphics for three makes of projector, the Bell & Howell screws directly into the backing lens, the Elmo in its bracket screws on to the front of the projector and then is slid along a channel back towards the backing lens, and the Elf bracket stays permanently fixed on the projector. To use the latter a scope lens is slid into the holder.

Most scope lenses are 2X, meaning that they show a picture twice as wide than the standard lens. If your picture is too wide, zoom the backing lens to the smallest picture size. If the result is still too wide, reduce your throw.

Make sure the scope lens is the correct way round, the smaller end is towards the projector, and the wider part is towards the screen. Make sure the focus mark is at the top and if necessary rotate further to ensure the picture has parallel top and bottom dimensions, and the sides are vertical and parallel.

The focus setting on the scope lens is only a guide, the focus is still controlled by the main backing lens. When mounting the scope lens make sure there is a small amount of space between the two lenses to allow for the backing lens to move sufficiently.

The final focus check should be made by slightly rotating the scope lens either side of its setting mark to make absolutely sure, when optimum has been achieved, make a final trim with the backing lens.

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged
Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted January 12, 2014 06:48 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a Kowa 16D, it SHOULD work. I've had one for years (now I use an Elmoscope II for both super 8 and 16, and a wonderful Schneider for 35mm).
As Maurice just said, you are experiencing vignetting.
In essence, the projected image out of your Elmo lens is too big. Zoom to the bigger focal length (I gather you own a F1.1). Or try to locate either a f1.4 or (better) f1.2 lens. It's meant for longthrow (25 to 50).

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged
Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 12, 2014 06:51 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
William, looks like you jumped the gun buying that huge lens. A smaller scope lens for 8mm or 16mm would be better. Here's my simple adapter from Wittner's that attaches with one screw (the gold one in the 2nd pic)to the pre-made hole in your Elmo. You adjust the scope lens for approximate distance from projector to screen and simply slip it in the holder, and then adjust your primary Elmo lens for image size and focus.... Super easy! - - Somehow my pic ended up in William's post [Confused]

--------------------
Joe Taffis

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 13, 2014 02:55 AM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok that was weird but Joe i changed it back over dont know how that happened.I thought a moderator had changed it to show what to do haha. From a little more research i know this lense belonged to an Elf i cant answer if it was an 8mm or 16mm but i know that i have a f1.4 lense on my elmo and this will not screw into it. I have the desicion to make wether i get a new scope lense or try and swap this one for a true 8mm scope lense if there is such a term.

-
-
-
Here are a few more pics of it.

 |  IP: Logged
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 13, 2014 03:17 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What projector are you using and how are you attaching the scope lens?
A scope lens is a scope lens, and as such, there are not anamorphics made just for Super 8. As far as I am aware your lens is not a great size, it just needs a suitable bracket.
Can you show us a pic of the projector and the anamorphic in its mount?

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 13, 2014 03:22 AM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Maurice im in the shop now so will ask the wife to set it up and take a photo for me.Will post it as soon as she emails it to me. I am using an Elmo st1200d.

ok so here are the pics
-
-

 |  IP: Logged
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 13, 2014 03:39 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The anamorphic is not shown, but looking at your excellent pics I can see no reason why the lens cannot be closer to the backing lens than the three inches which you mentioned earlier.

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 13, 2014 04:33 AM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunatley the lense will only sit flush with the back of the thicker part of the holder where you can see a bit of white plastic to protect the lense from being scratched.So it is sitting that far away from the projectors own lense. Wife set it up and took the pics not me [Smile] im in work i will ask her to take another one with the lense in place for you. Will edit this post when i have it.

so here is what it looks like
-

 |  IP: Logged
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 13, 2014 05:13 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Indeed a problem, but that's your trouble, not being able to get the anamorphic further back. The lens is not the problem, it's the bracket.
Could the clamp be somehow reversed to allow the scope lens to fit closer to the backing lens?
It would interesting to hear from other users of the Elmo ST-1200D as to how they fit their scope lenses.

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 13, 2014 05:42 AM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes tried to turn it around but does not work due to the way it is set up. Im wondering if i could make something to sit the lense on rather that connect it to the projector doesnt move around much when running.

 |  IP: Logged
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted January 13, 2014 09:57 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After close scrutiny of your pics it appears that the clamp is fixed to a plate which itself is attached to the anchor bracket by two screws.

If the two were taken apart and replaced on the lens side it might work. by doing this the clamping screw might have to be reversed. It would then bring the clamp almost up to the backing lens. If there was insufficient clearance you could always put a washer between the bracket and the projector body.

By doing this the anamorphic could then be brought very close to the backing lens.

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged
William Fleming
Master Film Handler

Posts: 319
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2011

- posted January 13, 2014 10:44 AM      Profile for William Fleming   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Problem is that is is all one piece so cant be changed it has been bent to accomodate connections in right places.I will have to get a new holder.I will speak with classic as i took my projector and lense into the shop for him to show me correct holder i would need and he gave me this one but seems it is not going to work. And considering it wasnt the cheapest for the holder either i need to see if i can swap it for a credit against a different one.

Actually i was able to swap it around but made no difference still missing the corners and also the big problem of wrapping round half my room [Smile] just wont fit on wall.

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2