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Topic: Sync sound using the flash sync terminal on a camera?

Raleigh M. Christopher
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 130
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2016

posted May 10, 2016 11:08 AM

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I've heard of some people somehow being able to use the flash sync terminal on their cameras to record sync sound for films, but have never seen an explanation for how this works. Does anyone know?

Thank you.

P.S. The camera I have uses X-sync with a PC-socket.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted May 10, 2016 11:44 AM

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As I understand it the basic scheme is to use a stereo audio recorder with one channel for monaural sound and the second one to record the pulses made by the flash contact.

This gives you frame for frame timing, but then you still deal with synchronizing the starting point. One way of dealing with this is to use a clapper.

You will also wind up dealing with variations in the frame rate of the camera. If the camera speeds up, the pitch of the sound will wind up low on the projector, and vice versa. This is why people use crystal sync: so it's not just by frames but real seconds of time.

I've always wanted to try this myself. I've never made a real sound film and it would be nice to pull it off, even if just once.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 10, 2016 01:53 PM

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The old Super 8mm magnetic sound cartridges were brilliant.
If Super 8mm film stock is to make a big comeback, it really should offer a mag stripe option for those still wishing to view their films using the traditional method!

Surely magnetic particles from iron oxide can be created in a paste or tape form without detriment to health in this day and age!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted May 10, 2016 01:55 PM

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Yeahhh,

I'm kind of sorry I never got to use a sound camera. I bought some camera original film about a year ago and I was actually pretty impressed with the quality of the sound.

-I could have done something with that!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Raleigh M. Christopher
Expert Film Handler

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From: New York, NY, USA
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posted May 10, 2016 07:39 PM

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Steve-

So basically you would need a special type of stereo recorder that A) had an input for the cable connected to the camera and B) had a way for you to tell it to only record audio on one track and the pulses from the camera on the other. Not to mention the specialized cable itself with a Prontor/Compur jack on one end and something compatible with the stereo recorder on the other.

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted May 10, 2016 08:08 PM

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I don't think the recorder would have to be that special, it's probably more a case of the cabling and interface involved.

I'm sure there are modern recorders available that would be a lot smaller and lighter than what would have been available back in the day.

-maybe someone could write a smart phone app!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Raleigh M. Christopher
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From: New York, NY, USA
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posted May 10, 2016 08:16 PM

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I had an idea about a smartphone app that would use a cable plugged in to the PC Socket on one end, and on the other it would plug into the lightning port on an iPad Mini. When the shutter button was pressed on the camera, it would start the app recording sound as a digital file using the built in mics on the iPad, or an external mic plugged into the 3.5mm headphone jack.

Now, back to the stereo recorder question, how would you tell the recorder to only record audio on one track and the pulse on the other unless, I dunno, it had left and right inputs?

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted May 10, 2016 09:41 PM

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I'd expect a stereo recorder to have discreet inputs for right and left inputs, either different pins in the same connector or separate connectors entirely.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Brian Fretwell
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posted May 11, 2016 05:39 AM

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I tried something like this in the early 1980's, but just to indicate when the camera started (ie when the tone bursts started) as I couldn't be bothered with a synchroniser and the shots were short. A normal stereo cassette recorder worked very well in that sort of use.

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Raleigh M. Christopher
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From: New York, NY, USA
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posted May 11, 2016 11:44 AM

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Brian-

What kind of cable did you use?

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted May 11, 2016 06:37 PM

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I'm seeing all sorts of digital audio recorders with nice specs and attractive prices.

-what I haven't seen so far is one that has a start/stop by an external switch closure.

A typical cassette recorder had twin jacks next to each other: one was external mic., the other was the start/stop switch within the mic.

You'd need the modern equivalent to this.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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posted May 11, 2016 07:02 PM

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http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Tascam-DP-006-Recorder/PQR?origin=product-ads&utm_campaign=PLA+Shop+-+Tascam&utm_medium=vertical_search&network=google&adgroup=Tas cam.+All+Products&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=33363d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=119008992799&gclid=CIb96c2b08wCFc1uGwodS58Ffw

This is a good one Steve. Not yet discovered if it has remote start facility, but if it it did, Tascam is a renowned brand for this type of work. [Wink]

[Wink]

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Claus Harding
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posted May 11, 2016 07:08 PM

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Interesting, Steve,

I have a Tascam D70 (four-track/four channel digital field recorder) which does have a mini "remote" receptacle on it. As to the wiring, I don't know. I'll test it with my old "on/off" wired camera control and see if it responds like my Super-8 camera would.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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posted May 11, 2016 07:14 PM

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on a 3.5mm mini jack Claus, these things work that if if the wiring is closed circuit, the recorder will be in run mode, if open circuit, it will remotely stop.

You can control it, however you wish. ie camera, slider, microswitch etc etc.

It's how traditional deck start used to work from a mixer in DJ circles.

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted May 11, 2016 07:23 PM

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I think I need to look a little up-price. The ones at the lower end are a jack for external mic and a second for line out (-and USB, of course...).

The joy of these would be basically zero time to "speed", because there are no moving parts.

-one less variable in the way of keeping (or finding) sync.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 11, 2016 07:24 PM

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For sync purposes, there is no better method than digital!

Just don't try using it with your ST, Steve!! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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