8mm Forum: Has Beaulieu 708EL Stereo been always higher price than GS-1200 since long ago?

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Topic: Has Beaulieu 708EL Stereo been always higher price than GS-1200 since long ago?

Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 18, 2017 08:35 PM

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I have never been aware with Beaulieu 708EL Stereo until recently due to several offers. From years ago, I just knew GS-1200 as the roll royce of super 8mm projector and have been following the market price. Because I had zeero interest with a Beaulieu, I have never been aware of its.

Today, I can still find $750 for a GS-1200 Stereo but not for a Beaulieu 708EL Stereo. So, say in 1990s, was situation the same, where Beaulieu 708EL Stereo was above GS-1200, price wise? or it is just recently?

(please put aside all your bluff regarding the technical matters, I have warned you here [Razz]

[Razz]

)

cheers,

[ May 18, 2017, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Oliver F. R. Feld
Master Film Handler

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From: Berlin, Germany
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posted May 19, 2017 12:19 AM

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A collectors friend of mine bought a Beaulieu 708 Mono on a fleamarket 2 weeks ago and he payed 200 Euros...! In my opinion we should not see the eBay prices as average. I payed 500 Euros for my Beaulieu 708 Stereo a couple of years ago.

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted May 19, 2017 02:42 AM

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Movie Maker magazine of October 1982 gives the following new prices:-

Elmo GS-1200 Stereo with f1.1 = £869
Beaulieu 708EL Stereo with f1.1 = £900

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 19, 2017 04:23 AM

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Oliver, it very much depends where you live. These units seem to sell traditionally in France, Belgium,Switzerland and Germany the most from new.
They therefore seem to emerge from the woodwork far far more frequently in these countries than they do here in the UK lets say.

If you were waiting to find even a mono, let alone a Stereo model of these on a flea market here in the UK, quite frankly you would be waiting a lifetime.

The prices quoted anytime here by myself, is on average, very realistic and reflective with what us UK residents here could expect to pay for an excellent and original non modified well cared for working example in each case.

If you can find fully working Stereo models in cosmetically perfect condition regularly in Germany for €500, please sell a few to me! [Smile]

[Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Rik
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posted May 19, 2017 07:55 AM

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Here in the states you will not find a perfectly running Beaulieu 708 Stereo for less than $1200 in most cases. It could be the rarity of them here. But many GS1200's here so that could explain the lower costs.

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 19, 2017 08:26 AM

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$1200 is around £920 here, so give or take £100, I would conclude the same here in the UK for one as described by Alan.

I would expect this situation to only increase as time passes now. Fewer in future will be found in the original state we all want them in.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 19, 2017 10:41 AM

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Hi Oliver, of course flea market's price can sometimes be a bargain. My self once bought a GS1200 for $50 there. I also found in Craiglist and bought a GS1200 for $95.

Ebay is better used to measure the market price because it is seen by many people and an auction style website.

Maurice thanks. I can see from the price range in 1982, the two projectors were at par when new, pricewise. Few dollars different was meant to catch up the market. This is similar to what happen now between Samsung S8 vs Iphone 7.

I am focusing in second hand market price, say in 1990s, was Beaulieu priced higher than GS1200 or it is only a recent trend?

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Dominique De Bast
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posted May 19, 2017 10:51 AM

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Andrew, Beaulieu 708 projectors are also pricy here (Belgium and France). The first time I went to Argenteuil (the famous film fair in France), more than 20 years ago, I saw over 15 Beaulieu projectors (there were around 1.500 € !). Now, you're lucky if you can see just one for sale.

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
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posted May 19, 2017 11:09 AM

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Stephan Binder at Super8film in Vienna has three Beaulieu for sale, two stereo and one mono.
http://www.super8film.at/en_index.htm
Click on "Tonfilmprojektoren" and scroll down.

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 19, 2017 11:17 AM

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Winbert, by the mid 90's the price of the Stereo model here in the UK had rocketed to around £2300.

£49 difference or whatever it was in 1982 is a significant difference. It represented half of a skilled man's weekly wage here in the UK in that same year I began work with my company back then.
An average family sized car cost around £2000 new back then to put all of this monetary analysis into perspective.

I have the advertisement in a few FFTC magazines to cement this fact surrounding the later 90's prices.

Thanks Dominique, Oliver's story of obtaining one for 500 euros locally did sound like a lucky find to me.
You have now overwhelmingly reassured me of that fact, thanks.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Oliver F. R. Feld
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posted May 19, 2017 12:50 PM

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Hi again,
to me 500 Euros seemed to be a normal price, because a lot of Beaulieu machines had been sold on ebay. It was always between 400-700 Euros, while the ELMO GS 1200 was between 700-1100 Euros. I had the feeling that the ELMO was much more sought after.
Then suddenly this year it changed when one Beaulieu Stereo Studio version had been sold for much more.

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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posted May 19, 2017 12:58 PM

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I've been watching them for years Oliver, wherever they surface for sale.

Never once throughout that time period have I seen the average price of the Stereo model set at between 400-700 euros.
S Binder for example has always placed these two machines at around the same price for like for like models.
(Typically around the £1000 mark)

It isn't only the Studio model that has sold this year alone for over a thousand btw.

If I've ever seen an overly cheap model for sale, there is always an obvious reason as to why this is.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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posted May 19, 2017 01:25 PM

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Oliver, 400 € for a Beaulieu 708 would be a real bargain.

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Dominique

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Oliver F. R. Feld
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From: Berlin, Germany
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posted May 19, 2017 02:20 PM

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In the end maybe more film collectors found out about the excellence of the Beaulieu 708 lately and now the machines are more expensive than before...?! By the way: on April 14th an ELMO GS 1200 from Belgium has been sold on eBay for 545 Euros...

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 19, 2017 03:17 PM

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But that wasn't a Beaulieu Stereo model, was it Oliver?
Their prices really haven't changed much at all so far.

GS 1200s traditionally always fetched big big money despite the fact that there are loads of them in circulation.
I noticed things began to change on that front around 3 years ago here. They started appearing for sale increasingly around the £500 mark.

Later ones well looked after and well serviced with mods to the guides and extra rollers etc, still fetch a premium price as indeed they ought to, but for an early one not particularly well maintained or serviced, there are possible risks attached to purchasing them nowadays and spare parts are not so readily available for them, especially motors etc.

The price of the Beaulieu second hand models on the other hand, has never really altered so far at least.
I don't believe they are any more popular or universally well known now than they ever were.
I just think for some, they turned out to be a safe bet given that you could and still can get almost any spare part you'd need for one, albeit at a price.

Once this isn't any longer the case, I have no doubt the prices for these over time will also drop some 20% or more.
Only time will tell but aside from parts alone, the Beaulieu does also guarantee the total safe handling of our prints while in use with them, so long as you do nothing daft.

This may sway people's opinions slightly and possibly effect price points paid, I do not know, but to me, it's my number one priority and as such it is these models that I place my complete trust in.

I hear Fumeo users have a similar opinion regarding their trust in their machines.

In the words of this years Premier League Champions Manager...

I repeat....

"Thanks Dominique, Oliver's story of obtaining one for 500 euros locally did sound like a lucky find to me.
You have now overwhelmingly reassured me of that fact, thanks."

[ May 19, 2017, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 19, 2017 07:17 PM

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The price of antique/vintage/old stuff can be determined by the facts or myths, for example just because a famous star have it or showcased in a national TV program can jack up the price no matter what is the fact regarding the stuff.

So that is why I ask you to put aside all technical matters.

But from the latter posts I can conclude that GS1200 and 708EL stereo were competing one to the other over the price and features. Around 1990s, GS1200 gained more popularity hence the second hand price was going up while 708EL was steady.

Just currently because everyone now has had GS1200 while 708EL has a lower circulation, 708EL gains the popularity and its price surpasses a GS1200.

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 19, 2017 07:19 PM

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No Winbert, you have it wrong yet again my friend! [Wink]

[Wink]

Popularity, Bluff, Technical spiel, Fashion etc etc and so on and so forth, has nothing whatsoever to do with any of this thread.

It is simply all down to knowledge, Understanding and Quality.

Simple as that. [Wink]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Rik
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posted May 19, 2017 09:04 PM

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Another bidder and myself are the reason the Beaulieu Studio sold for so much. I "let it go" because I couldn't see myself paying over $2000 for a non HTI/Xenon Super 8 projector. Of course after that came the other Beaulieu Studio's out of the woodwork.
But Ebay is fickle and only time will tell what the real market price is. The other sellers thought they had gold on their hands and tried to sell theirs with a starting price of $2500. Not sold. Then they went down to $2000. Not sold. One of them sold offline for less than the asking price of $1900. The other one was listed at around $1300 US but did not sell.
In my March 1984 Price List from Super 8 sound it lists the Elmo GS1200 for $1560, and the Xenon for $3750. It doesn't list the price of the Beaulieu but I remember seeing something a while back with the HTI Beaulieu selling for around $5000-6000.
I think Beaulieu was always asking for higher prices because they considered themselves the PRO Super 8 company. I think Elmo was considered the Pro-Consumer level.
My first experience with the Beaulieu 708 was not good. The model I had was beaten to death and was sent to Bjorn in Beaulieu Sweden to sort out. When I got it back it was truly a wonderful machine. In some ways not as good as my GS1200 and in some ways better.
I think there are more damaged Beaulieu units out there than there are battered Elmo GS1200's. So if one is in good shape they can command a higher price. Well..my thoughts that is.

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted May 20, 2017 05:15 AM

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Spot on Alan and you have vast experience with both machines so your opinions should be listened to.

Like many machines, if they are not set correctly they can be absolutely awful. These are no exception. That is where the "Understanding" bit comes from.
I have had mine sounding like a machine gun once while running some warped acetate film (it did need some adjustment also to be fair) but then when things are set spot on, they just purr all day long if you keep your films well lubricated.
That is due to the "Quality" of the components and design of these machines.
I think like most projectors left running still now, you really have to get a good understanding of what makes them tick to get the very best out of them.

Alan above describes how his first was beaten to death when he first got it but then after some work from Bjorn, it became a firm favourite of his.
Many users have reported how they could never become truly at peace with these and then moved them on, but I think this can only be due to never getting them to the point Bjorn did with Alan's machine above, as if they had, they would surely have never parted company with them in each and every case.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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