8mm Forum: Elmo 16-CL with extra sound features?

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Topic: Elmo 16-CL with extra sound features?

Hans van der Sloot
Master Film Handler

Posts: 425
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2005

posted July 16, 2009 02:58 AM

The add says:

"This projector differs from a normal CL 16 it has been upgraded with added Tone control and fitted with a 2 channel graphic equaliser for stereophonic sound output"

Sounds great, but unfortunately the picture isn't very good.
Great price too.
Anybody ever seen an Elmo 16-CL with such a conversion?

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted July 16, 2009 03:03 AM

What "ad(vert?)" is this, Hans?
If my information is correct, 16CL is mag/opt, not Stereo?
A "two channel(?) graphic equaliser" can't make it stereo.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Hans van der Sloot
Master Film Handler

Posts: 425
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2005

posted July 16, 2009 03:09 AM

Stupid, I forgot the link:

http://cgi.ebay.nl/Elmo-CL-16-16mm-Optical-Sound-Cine-Film-Projector_W0QQitemZ170356714967QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Photography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessories?hash=item27aa 0d2dd7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1399%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 16, 2009 03:25 AM

All the 16CL's have a tone control or at least all the ones I have seen.

The stereo equalizer add on was sold by an independant company but I can remember who. Can anyone remember?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted July 19, 2009 07:36 AM

We all know that there were a few attempts at "stereo-izing" 16mm but it was never really marketed.
As Kev confirms, all CL, AL, AA, CX and XP models have tone controls.
The model pictured on Ebay looks like a regular CL.
That conversion feels like a simple sound splitter from the line out. This is what I use to feed the sound to my Dolby processor. It's not stereo but it's hifi dual-mono.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Joe McAllister
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 179
From: London England
Registered: May 2007

posted July 20, 2009 08:53 AM

Hi Elmo did make a stereo version of the 16 CL, at least according to a 16mm film which was produced to promote the item showing how lasers were used to produce stereo optical tracks. Sadly I don't yet have a 16mm stereo projector to test the stereo capabilities of this print.
As 16mm stereo optical tracks are quite scarce I guess it was a system that didn't catch on.

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Always interested in privately produced amateur and home movies.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 21, 2009 04:47 AM

Then it sounds like it was all just experimental. I too have heard mumblings in the past of stereo 16mm tests and yes I suppose some manufacturer would have to build a handful of machines for testing puposes and that may have been Elmo. As far as I am aware there were no Stereo 16mm machines sold comerially by any manufacturer.

Kev.

[ July 21, 2009, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 21, 2009 06:55 AM

There have been rumours of 16mm prints produced for the US Military with Dolby Stereo tracks.
However, I've not come across anyone who's actually seen one of these prints.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 21, 2009 09:22 AM

There was a 16CL that Elmo made that was specific for dual language use. Back in the early 1970s the first use of independent dual bi-lateral recording was on 16mm to provide a 16mm release print with two languages. A mask was moved to allow scanning one side or the other. Robert Ulig at Kodak did the work and they modified an RCA recorder with an extra galvo which I think was a Mauer F Prime.

This led to the realization that you could record two optical sound tracks. This was not "new", Western Electric had done exactly this prior to World War II but at that time there was no market for binaural sound and then the war suspended all work.

The stereo optical variable area track problems were solved by using the Dolby technique which was in wide use for stereo cassette recordings on the then new Phillips audio cassettes.

The rest would be history, except no one wanted it. A few pictures were made, but until Star Wars was released, theatres didn't install the equipment. Up to that time we still released stereo with four magnetic sound tracks. The cost of the prints and the upkeep of the equipment prevented it from becoming an industry standard.

Somewhere I think I have a catalog sheet on a 16CL with the dual language option.

Later Elmo sold some of their pedestal Xenon machine with a "laser" scan sound and a split pick-up cell and claimed stereo. Any prints that exist must be made from a print down from a 35mm negative because I've never seen anyone that has a 16mm recorder with a stereo light valve.

BTW, it was much easier to make stereo recordings with the Western Electric Light Valve since you could modulate ribbons, in the RCA recorder it was necessary to put in an additional modulator and a new optical system to combine the two modulated beams through the mask and slit onto the film. I don't know if RCA ever sold one, but at least one or two were built.

John

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 21, 2009 02:07 PM

Thats fascinating, John. Nice post.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 21, 2009 05:13 PM

Fascinating stuff John as always. So it looks like the thoughts and technology was there but never given a chance. Just imagine 16mm optical stereo sound it would have been great and maybe kept the gauge going (commercially) a little longer.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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