8mm Forum: Kodak Pageant

8mm Forum

my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home

next oldest topic

next newest topic

»	8mm Forum » 16mm Forum » Kodak Pageant

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: Kodak Pageant

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 17, 2015 02:19 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

By a stroke of luck I have today obtained one in very good condition and amazingly in working order. Having said that the sound reproduction is barely audible, which is to be expected after all this time. The problem I have is that the lamp is blown, which I thought wouldn't be a problem to replace, but it seems that it is! The old lamp is a Phillips a 125v 750w and marked 207 and with the usual two flanges. I have plenty of these type of lamps but I can't get them to fit. Does the Pageant take a special type of lamp?

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 17, 2015 03:02 PM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry
There were many variants of Kodak Pageants, and you don't say what model you have.
I have the European export model of the AV-12M6-L (Optical/Magnetic replay & record) which is for 240 volt mains and its projection lamp is the standard pre-focus A1/9 240v 750w.
The exciter lamp is a G/40 6v 1a.
If you go to Dons Bulbs you can glean a lot if you insert "Pageant" in the equipment search (second one down.)
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/t.pl

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Elyas Tesfaye
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2012

posted May 17, 2015 05:36 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hi Terry,

congrats on the find and I have one I don't use anymore that I'm more than happy to give you free, you just take care of shipping if interested [Smile]

[Smile]

...

Cheers,
Elyas

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 18, 2015 02:33 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Elyas
That's a very kind offer. I assume you mean the bulb? If so I would be most grateful. Please let me know any cost and a means to pay (perhaps PayPal?)
Kind Regards
Terry

Maurice
I wasn't aware that there were many variations and I don't know as yet which one I have, other than it is optical only and 110v. I will have a look and see if I can find the model number. Thanks for the advise.
Best
Terry

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 18, 2015 08:43 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Ellyas
Thank you again for your kind offer but I have now found a lamp that fits. I think that the lamp holder is a little corroded with age and was making the fitting difficult. Problem now sorted and working fine. I still have the problem of very low sound but it is difficult to find local people with the knowledge and skill to rectify valve amplifier faults. Sadly I may just have to pass this one on.

Maurice
The model is 7K2 from 1958. Saw one on YouTube exactly the same.

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 18, 2015 09:00 AM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I see from YouTube that the 7K2 has a volume control for a microphone, before you give up try a microphone.
It could be just dirty optics causing low sound. A microphone test could prove that the amp works OK.

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 18, 2015 02:02 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Maurice
Yes I tried that and also tried the scanning adjustment but no difference really. I also had a look at the PEC which looks almost new, no burn marks on the light sensitive panel, so it looks like an amplifier fault. Unfortunately the microphone doesn't work. There seems plenty of volume (hiss & hum) when not running film but the signal from the optical track is not being amplified sufficiently apparently. Listening to the experienced forum members who have encountered this same problem it seems that the amplifier needs capacitors and resistors replacing. I wish I knew someone who would take on that job.

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 18, 2015 02:51 PM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry
Check out the website of a Weymouth gentleman who seems able to check out valve amplifiers.
http://www.jonsnell.co.uk/aboutme.htm

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted May 18, 2015 10:50 PM

Email Barry Fritz

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

The hum usually indicates that the filter condensers (electrolytic capacitors) need to be replaced.

| IP: Logged

Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted May 19, 2015 03:58 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry,

While a rebuild of the valve amp is obviously the best option, it may be easier getting an engineer to replace the amp with a modern transistorised one. These are cheap enough even with a new power supply - use batteries if you have to - the main difficulty would be installing a photo diode to replace the PEC.

--------------------
Paul.

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 19, 2015 05:11 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Paul
It's obtaining suitable photo diodes that have put me off going down that path, also I prefer to keep things original.

MAURICE
You've done it again! I contacted Jon Snell and have given him the amp to look at. If what he tells me about his qualifications is true then he is just the repair wizard I have been looking for. If he does a good job I will get him to look at my RCA Hollywood, Ampro Stylist and my beloved Debrie, which has started having crackles and hissy fits (must be female). Thank you for your help and I will keep you updated on the progress.

| IP: Logged

Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted May 19, 2015 06:01 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry,
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. Regarding the photo diodes, photo transistors can be used as well. However like you I would also prefer to see the original valve amplifier in use.

--------------------
Paul.

| IP: Logged

Elyas Tesfaye
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2012

posted May 19, 2015 07:52 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hi Terry,

glad you now have what you were looking for and best of luck in the audio reproduction front, good sir [Smile]

[Smile]

!!!

Best,
ET

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 19, 2015 08:06 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Thanks Elyas
With regard to the lamp I still find it very difficult to fit and remove it, so I guess the lamp holder is a bit dodgy, although I can't see any visible defect. It won't be my favoured projector of use so I'm hoping not to change it again for a while.

Elyas as you have a Pageant 7k2 perhaps you could help me with another matter. Because of the very low sound I am wondering whether the incorrect exciter lamp is fitted. Can you tell me which type it should be? The one fitted is a 7volt 0.2amp double contact with horizontal filament. Is that what you have?

[ May 19, 2015, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Terry Sills ]

| IP: Logged

Elyas Tesfaye
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2012

posted May 19, 2015 04:35 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hello again Terry,

I had a Pageant 126 AVTR but I'm assuming it might just be a North American variant of the same model as yours? I have passed on said beast to my neighbor during Spring cleaning and don't have him anymore [Frown]

[Frown]

... Nonetheless, I do have an exciter lamp lying around and it says "BRK 4V, 0.75 Amp". I do second your point on removal and replacement of these exciter lamps. Till I got the hang of it, the base did prove user unfriendly [Frown]

[Frown]

... Hope that helps and please lemme know if you have any more questions and talk soon [Smile]

[Smile]

!!!

Best,
ET

| IP: Logged

Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted May 19, 2015 07:55 PM

Email Barry Fritz

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

My 7K4 has a release lever on the exciter socket. If yours has that lever, are you flipping it up? It is easy to remove the lamp once that is done.

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 20, 2015 12:46 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hello Barry
Unfortunately the 7k2 doesn't have a release lever. What exciter lamp does yours take. Is it a double contact base?

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 20, 2015 02:25 AM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry
The exciter lamp which you describe is probably a BTD.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Projector-Bulb-BTD-Lamp-NEW-Ship-4-80-Priority-Mail-/291455854685?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dc1f685d

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 20, 2015 04:15 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Yes Maurice that's the one. I just wonder whether it's the correct one for the 7k2. I can't find any info on the net but I have messaged Martyn Stevens in the hope that he has some reference.

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 20, 2015 05:52 AM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry
According to Donsbulbs.com a few Eastman Kodak Pageants used the BTD exciter lamp, although the model 7K2 is not listed.
However, there seems no reason that the lamp fitted in your new Pageant is incorrect.

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 20, 2015 06:09 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Thanks Maurice
You're probably right. It's just that because the sound level is so low that I figured that, if it is the wrong lamp, it would be a contributing factor.

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 28, 2015 01:49 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

The amplifier has been repaired but the problem persists. Have checked the pec which is ok but the voltage to it is 45v. Does anyone know whether this is th correct voltage to activate the pec? I thought pec's worked on 100 volts? Perhaps this is the reason for low sound. Does anyone know?

| IP: Logged

Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted May 28, 2015 03:24 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry,
The PECs used in the Bell & Howell amps of the 50s required 90V polarising voltage, so I think you are probably correct.

--------------------
Paul.

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 28, 2015 03:16 PM

Email Maurice Leakey

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Terry
I found an interesting PDF with operating instructions for an early Kodak sound projector. It's not called a Pageant but you will find it interesting.
Photocell voltage is quoted as 90 volts.
I found it from a Google search under:-
PDF - Kodak Sound Kodascope Projector FS-10-N-ApeCity.com

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 28, 2015 04:38 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Thanks Maurice
Not the exact model but the principles are the same and it confirms that the pec voltage should be 90volts which would explain the very low sound. It is essentially the same same as a valve and requires the required voltage to operate efficiently, so to my mind this has to be the problem. If my presumptions are wrong please correct me before I explore this route ( anyone???)

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

Move Topic

Delete Topic

next oldest topic

next newest topic

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2