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Author Topic: When people start yelling "F***"
Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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- posted July 18, 2011 02:24 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not a native English speaker, but wondering seeing nowadays US movie with 1940s setting have had people yelling coarse language "F**K you!"

When actually people start using that coarse language? and did also people in England start using the same word at the same periode?

thanls

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Winbert

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Steve Klare
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- posted July 18, 2011 03:19 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Words of the four letter category are actually very old, a lot older than modern English. (-and why shouldn't they be? The functions they describe are pretty ancient, too!) What has really changed recently is how acceptable they have become in common speech (to some speakers and fewer listeners), to the point where a lot of people use them for punctuation when they speak about things that aren't offensive enough to call for them.

I object: I like words to keep their meaning so when I need them they will be there for my use at their intended strength.

You will almost never hear me use what Jean Shepherd called "The Queen Mother of dirty words", but comes that moment I nudge that mallet off my work bench and it bounces off my shin on the way down, you may just hear it all up and down the street!

(There is a time and a place!)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bryan Chernick
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- posted July 18, 2011 03:28 PM      Profile for Bryan Chernick   Email Bryan Chernick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WWII may be when widespread use of that language came about. There is a film from 1944 called "Three Brothers". The movie is about Private Snafu, Fubar and Tarfu, all acronyms with the "F" word. Wikipedia has a description of the movie. Does anyone have it in 8mm?

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Pasquale DAlessio
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- posted July 18, 2011 03:52 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert

The "F" word you are talking about actually originated in England. It was an acronym for Fornication Under Consent of the King.

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Steve Klare
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- posted July 18, 2011 04:44 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
-Older than that!

Origin:
1495–1505; akin to Middle Dutch Fo.....

(dictionary.com, check it out!)

I had an English teacher that said that the curses are among the oldest words we have. I guess they are the most human of words and their subjects are things we've always had to talk about!

Let's face it, before we had the Information Age, the Industrial Revolution and the Agricultural Revolution we still had heh, heh, hehhhhhh!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Claus Harding
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- posted July 18, 2011 08:06 PM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As with anything, it is about 'dynamic range' and what it does to speech, music, et. cetera.

When you keep the "big ones" in reserve, it is only when you decide to lop one in that it truly has an impact.
I don't like crude expressions, feeling that the English language has more than enough "take-down" power as it is if you use it correctly.
Some of the most devastating insults uttered have been in the most polite of terms.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Michael O'Regan
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- posted July 19, 2011 03:26 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Use of the "F" word doesn't bother me as much as hearing a lack of ability to string a sentence together which is even a little bit grammatically correct. Beginning every sentence with "Im like...." for example!

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Graham Ritchie
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- posted July 19, 2011 04:25 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember when I was very young and growing up in Scotland, being on a bus with my father when someone in the seat just in front of us was using the "F" word. Without saying anything my father got up walked to the front of the bus..talked to the driver who then pulled over, he walked back to this person who was seated with his friend got this guy and dragged him down the bus.....the door then opened and this guy went flying out the door. He then instructed the driver to then carry on, walked back down the bus and said to the other person that was in front of us...one more word out of you and you will be next. He then sat down and never said anything else and read his newspaper. My father had a very short fuse and I did find out he had served with the Chindits in Burma during the war so he knew how to look after himself. I never ever swore in his presence and still remember to this day that guy flying into neverland of that bus.

Graham. [Smile]

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Lee Mannering
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- posted July 19, 2011 05:30 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes its something else the British can be proud of, so much so the word made its way into the Oxford English Dictionary and a word noted as coarse slang with various meanings. The word seems to date back to the 16th century and today is thought to be one of the most offensive words in English language. Another English classic is 'Twat' which dates from the 17th Century. [Eek!]

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Winbert Hutahaean
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- posted July 19, 2011 09:12 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys for enlighting me.

The actual meaning of F*** is sexual intercourse, so my other question now, is there similar word in other language (French, Spanish) used for same context in their daily language?.

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
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- posted July 19, 2011 10:34 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Believe it or not, the first use of the "F" word was in a 1930 (or 31?) Warners cartoon, in which one of the characters says "You dirty F**k" .

I will get you the actual title of the cartoon later today.

It always had bugged me when film-makers put todays lingo into the past. I think that was yet another reason why I really admired "Dark City". A prostitute, who's just had a "john" walk out on here says, "Ahh shoot", when your expecting her to say something else. The director simply said that this wasn't language that was u8sed as a general rule at the time, and so he chose to have her speak appropriately.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Barry Fritz
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- posted July 19, 2011 12:25 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, I think you mean the first use in a film . Public use of such words runs the risk of offending those around you. However, I believe I saw a study somewhere that indicated cursing when injured (such as Steve's example in his shop) actually helps the pain. I refrain from cursing in public, but when alone and I mangle myself in some way, I let 'er fly. Saying just "ouch, doggone it" just doesn't cut it.

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Osi Osgood
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- posted July 19, 2011 12:59 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Barry, you are correct. It was one of those shorts before the production code came into play.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steve Klare
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- posted July 19, 2011 11:06 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But Barry,

What do you do when your five year old is in the next room?

"GOSH!!!...DARN!!!...OHHHHH...CRUD!!!"

Where's the therapeutic value in that?

My favorite four letter film moment is when "Uncle Edgar" let go an unscripted "Oh S---t!!" right in the middle of Laurel and Hardy's "Perfect Day". They say in the video releases it's been sanitized, but you don't even have to listen very hard when it's my Blackhawk 400 footer!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Osi Osgood
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- posted July 20, 2011 10:39 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This reminds me of a stopry from my past ...

I was doing an untimely repair to my car, (they are always untimely, are they not?). It was an oil change and filter change.

I had just loosened the filter and it fell off and bonked me on the head. I honored this blessing from the car with a barrage of shall we say, naughty words.

Having done so, I then looked over at the siodewalk to see a nun and a bunch of little girls staring at me. With my hand (that just moments ago was pressed up against the oil leakage), I waved and said a weak "hi", opnly to have the contents of my car gushing down on my face, to which I once again blessed with another barrage, and attacking the inanimate object with my wrench.

The nun and children hurried off.

Yes, sometimes naughty words are most certainly merited.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Barry Fritz
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- posted July 20, 2011 11:51 AM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve: You point out the downside of the cursing practice. My kids are all grown now, but I don't doubt they may have heard an F bomb or two. I'm pretty much confined to the basement man cave now or the garage when doing any manual work that might lead to unexpected pain so nobody is usually in earshot. It's a whole different topic when you consider that the Effenheimer is a work that has become so common on TV during the numerous awards shows that TV execs have considered not bleeping it, as has the FCC.

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Steve Klare
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- posted July 20, 2011 12:01 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll always remember my friend's Dad driving the two of us to school one morning and a local crazy cut him off.

His spine stiffened and he let out:

"YOUUUUUUUU.....(????)....BANANA!!!"

My Dad drove into Manhattan every day...if it was him behind the wheel it would have been vocabulary time for sure!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Graham Ritchie
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- posted July 20, 2011 06:01 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve
I hope you have this one on Super8? sounds like it would bring back memories...an excellent Derann print. [Smile]
-

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Christian Bjorgen
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- posted July 21, 2011 02:53 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I feel that a certain Carlin-clip is fitting at this moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSlbEq0roEM

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Mark L Barton
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- posted July 21, 2011 03:30 AM      Profile for Mark L Barton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Winbert noted the F word describes the act of sexual union, the word is based on the Latin, fecudus (Fecund = to be sexual)
I honestly believe that here in the UK we have the best in swear words, I'm sure my fellow country men will agree, words such as T@sser, W@@ker et al. And great phrases such as 'Jog on' ( a milder form of F off)

This is what makes film collecting so wonderful, it leads to such diverse debates. Cheers to all

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Steve Klare
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- posted July 21, 2011 04:58 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd say the Italians have the best obscenities. You don't even need to understand the language: just the inflections make you wince!

I used to work with a technician who yelled at the work in Italian when it wasn't going well.

(I had no idea power supplies have sisters!...or what those sisters do...(er)...professionally.)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Mark L Barton
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- posted July 21, 2011 06:53 AM      Profile for Mark L Barton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Now we have a debate, which country has the best obscenities, ah the joy of film collecting. Chuckles

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Osi Osgood
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- posted July 21, 2011 10:26 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's a "wonker" (I ask in a "clinical" fashion).

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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- posted July 21, 2011 11:01 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You know:

-Played by Gene Wilder and Johnny Depp.
-Makes chocolate.
-Deep down really doesn't like children.

[Wink]

(Besides: I thought it is "Wanker".)

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Osi Osgood
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From: Mountian Home, ID.
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- posted July 21, 2011 01:12 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, I had it wrong. I have heard it in some british sitcoms and there is always a great deal of laughter afterwards, so it must be something funny, (or naughty, which is just as good! [Big Grin] )

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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