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Author Topic: More on the death of 35mm
Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted January 21, 2013 12:56 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was glad to see this article on the front page of the Sunday Los Angeles Times, yesterday's paper. This unnecessary shift to digital is proceding relentlessly, so there's the latest story. But I'm afraid a few news stories won't change the minds of anyone in management who is forcing this. There are too few people who care for it to impact the financial receipts.

[ January 21, 2013, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Bill Brandenstein ]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2013 01:32 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just Awful!

Fortunately both of the drive-ins I've been to these last few years are going to be able to jump the hurdle. Whether they'll always be able to make their loan payments is another matter altogether. It's like living in a paid-off house and suddenly finding yourself saddled with a mortgage payment every month!

The other shoe waiting to drop here is what happens ten (or five?) years down the road when these new systems are obsoleted themselves and these same theaters are on the hook for another couple of hundred thousand dollars. How many times does that have to happen before selling the land to Walmart looks very appealing?

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted January 21, 2013 01:52 PM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My take on the ‘cinema digital revolution’…..
We will never change the direction cinema is going in, but the plus side of thing is that we, the real film collectors have a golden opportunity to preserve film and show it to the public/friends as it was intended to be shown using the intermittent movie projector albeit in our homes. Other opportunities arise to show off REAL FILM at the British Film Collectors Convention, Cinesea, and even the North West Film Fair etc, so let’s get moving and show film at its very best for 2013 and beyond! I for one sincerely believe projecting film using the intermittent projector lies firmly in the hands of all home cinema showman and not the industry from now on.

Please support your film fair and all film conventions wherever you are..

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 21, 2013 01:57 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well said Lee!

Right on!

Bill [Big Grin]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted January 21, 2013 02:43 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted January 21, 2013 02:50 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
While agreeing in principle with what Lee is saying,we have all
supported film by being film collectors, making and buying film.
Time moves on and the method of mass entertainment has
changed,moved away from film, that will eventually end film stock
provision for the independent film maker.My belief is that the public at large, couldn't care less, they don't collect or make film.
Trying to push back the tide and flying the flag for film is
commendable, but it's not going to alter a thing, the people that
would once have come to public screenings in the village hall
won't anymore,why should they, they can view whatever they
want from the comfort of their own homes.No the change has
happened,like the change from std 8mm to super 8,from video
to DVD, time marches on, until as Steve points out, something
else comes on the scene.The cinema as we knew it is slowly
dying, much as music hall did before it,but the screens will
still be lit by digital projection.We still have our collectors either
on this forum or quitely unknown, but the hobby still lives with
us,raw filmstock will be a different question.Just to underscore
what I'm saying, one of the lads who used to attend screenings in the past was astounded that I still used film "No video's the
stuff now, I'm suprised you haven't moved on" Say's it all really.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted January 21, 2013 02:51 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted January 21, 2013 02:53 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree, Hugh. That can't be said often enough... [Wink] [Big Grin]

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Paul Cooke
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted January 21, 2013 03:18 PM      Profile for Paul Cooke   Email Paul Cooke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's a sad article. As a counter I do think this is a time of some positive changes for celluloid. Digitisation has sparked a new interest in using film stock creatively, making it, shooting it, developing it, screening it.

This network of film labs looks healthy to me: http://www.filmlabs.org/index.php/labs/

and these guys are experimenting with coffee: http://caffenol.blogspot.co.uk/

The Cube Microplex in Bristol where i work is reacting to digital revolution with a renewed dedication to film. We may install a digital system, just to have the option of showing new releases, but we're also planning on building a film lab and becoming a centre for 35mm, 16mm, and 8mm learning, archiving and screening.

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 21, 2013 04:31 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems to me Lee and Hugh are saying the same things. Lee's angle just a more positive spin. Hugh, I'm as angry as you are about the state of things. We have plenty of film to enjoy in our collections so lets enjoy them!

Bill [Smile]

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2013 04:47 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital is another bear to maintain and preserve. I feel it is a mistake to sound the death knell on 35mm, or any celluloid for that matter - Eventual technology will encompass chips and electronic impulses to generate images, but no matter the advancement, film will be here to stay. Let's take care of it.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted January 21, 2013 04:55 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gentlemen.....that's progress!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2013 05:46 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I totally agree with Lee. Film projection will very soon become almost exclusively the domain of film collectors, and as the projection of 35mm disappears forever, I believe that the novelty and interest value of seeing 'reel' projection in action will only increase. I see this already, when I do shows for school groups. Both students and parents alike become fascinated by the film projector and the opportunity to see films as they were originally intended to be shown. So lets all keep our film projectors maintained and runnimg at peak performance, and our film collections clean and well stored for all the future special film shows- private and public alike.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted January 21, 2013 06:43 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I broadly agree with Lee and Paul. I can't argue that the future for film is far from positive, but I don't think it's quite as bleak as Hugh's view. I think a comparison can actually be drawn with steam trains; the majority of the public don't care if they never travel on them, but there are enough enthusiasts who welcome their unique charm for there to be a market to keep them going in certain settings.

When I present film shows - some of which a charity 'variety shows' - I never get people saying why don't you move on to DVD? People come partly because they are curious to see something different, and that curiosity seems to be increasing. It also helps if you screen material that isn't typical DVD extras, and emphasises that there's good material on film that either can't be found on DVD, or at least isn't likely to be owned on DVD by the feature film buying public.

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted January 21, 2013 11:31 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But even those who want authenticity or the novelty of film may be in for a disappointment. Except for collectors and their friends! What's really surprised me is how much already the digital shift has affected repertory screenings. Wanna see "Singin' in the Rain" or some other classic at the Aero or Eqytpian here in LA? Chances are just as likely (or more) it will be digital than 35mm, and they seem to go for film whenever possible. That says a lot about what distributors are still willing to put up with in terms of library maintenance and availability.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted January 22, 2013 03:16 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good article Bill

Its a shame to see this happening and sometimes when I run the old Bauer U4 35mm projector in the garage that came with me from the cinema when it closed. I will watch the projector running with some film through it, and think....yes "we" are now...well and truly history.

Graham.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted January 22, 2013 04:04 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
The upshot is filmstock for the film maker,when that dries up,
then what? The public at large has shunned photography in the accepted sense,the majority don't even use cameras that are
made for the job, prefering to do their snapshottery on telephones.
Like I said previously,our hobby will still continue among collectors
but trying to believe that film will make some sort of comeback
is delusionary.Time does not reverse itself.It costs a lot of money,skills and equipment to run photolabs,and these are
closing continually,the people and gear scrapped.They will never return,the skills,like so many other industries will be
lost.Time to realise that technology is moving at such speed
what will be the next step for the moving image,lets be brutally
honest, cine was quaint by the end of the '80s, video was
embraced by the public, hundreds of cinephiles swapped
perfectly good equipment for video,and the film situation from
then on was in trouble.Now it's the big boys that are ringing the changes, we don't like it, but that's progress.I hate to play
"Devils advocate",but just because a private show to members
of the public is successful,it doesn't mean a return to film.As the
saying goes "One swallow doesn't make a summer". I truly
love film,with all it's foibles, but lets be realistic,times have
changed.Film will still be with us for a long time,but only among
people like ourselves.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 22, 2013 04:05 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One further problem for cinemas is the ongoing, gradual decline in the standard of product being offered to them. Hollywood as we knew it is producing very poor films now (generally) which is leaving other parts of the world to come up with the product. Whilst there have been quite a few good ones in recent years the overall standard is incredibly poor compared to just 20 years ago.

I think the desire of the big companies to control every aspect of exhibition is causing their eventual downfall.

But on the plus side, people are genuinely interested in film projectors and film projection wherever us enthusiasts put on a show. I like that steam engine analogy.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted January 22, 2013 12:17 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John

Another point regarding cinema, is that it once offered the "big" picture experience, compared with what we used to see on at home on our TV set. That in itself has changed for the worse for cinema exhibition, where the screens have got smaller and TVs has got bigger. Regardng "Hollywood", for years its been one sequel after another "Ice Age 4" just one latest example. Certainly there are a few good movies out there "not many though" compared with whats available on dvd and home entertainment in general.

So apart from the occasional movie "not film" to go to, there is not much of an incentive out there, for the masses to pay good money to go to the cinema these days.

Graham.

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Roger Shunk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 604
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted January 22, 2013 02:16 PM      Profile for Roger Shunk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes it's sad to see that our technology has surpassed our humanity! [Frown]
RS

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 22, 2013 05:26 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
trying to believe that film will make some sort of comeback
is delusionary

I don't think anyone has said this is the case.

Bill [Smile]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted January 22, 2013 06:03 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Well what is the point of telling people that watching film is better
Bill? Cinemas are never going to revert to film, no matter how
hard we film lovers push the argument.The public at large, while
being sympathetic,really don't care,as long as there is a picture
on the screen.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 22, 2013 06:14 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a friend who does calligraphy. She's worked really hard learning it and takes remendous pride in her work.

-for most of the rest of us what comes out of a laser printer will do just fine.

This is the exact same thing: what we are concerned about is process, most people don't really care as long as the results are good enough!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 22, 2013 06:19 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Telling them it's better is not what we are talking about. We are all sad that film is being thrown away by the studios and I understand the public at large doesn't care. All I'm saying is we on the forum love film and have large collections we enjoy. Let's just enjoy them and if some people come along for the enjoyment ...great. We are not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Aren't we just pointing out that we as film collectors are carrying on the flame so to speak....not to the masses but for our enjoyment.

Bill [Smile]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted January 22, 2013 07:04 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
That is exactly what I've been saying Bill,personally, the professional cinema can go to hell, I have my own film, folks who
think I should move with the times @#/! 'em. I couldn't give a
toss what the public watch, the majority haven't taste in their mouths, let alone in anything else.It's a thing I keep saying, you
all have your own films,enjoy them while you can,never mind
about younger generations,they can look after themselves, enjoy
your films now while your machines are capable of showing them.A sobering thought, how many would be "historians",who
cherished their collections, died and the films went to the heap!
It's selfish I suppose, but I don't care on converting ignorant
people to film,lifes too short.

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