8mm Forum: Storing films in the Fridge

This is topic Storing films in the Fridge in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001352

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on August 02, 2005, 05:53 AM:

When I posted about my first Mini feature, i asked the possiblity to store films in Fridge in order to keep films from color turning and vinegar syndrome. This question did not get the answer, since probably other members were more attracted to the main title. So, i place again this question with it's own title.

I am serioous in asking this, since I recently got films from German and they were in good color. But knowing Fiji is the hotest and most humid country, I am afraid that these films may have color turning and VS after several months.

Do you think it is OK to store the films inside the fridge? of course before I am using them I have to put them on room temperature first, since dews must be there and it is harm for the projector.

Your response is appreciated.

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on August 02, 2005, 09:06 AM:

You need better control than just placing it in the "fridge". Cold storage (or controlled film vaults) handle both temp and humdity. If you place the film in a sealed can and the humidity is too high, it'll condense on the film forming water and possibly starting mold growth.

If have a "wine cellar", it would be a good place to store film as well but keep a watch on both temp and humidity. Profession vaults of course have recording devices that show the temp and humidity and can be checked.

How much extra life will you get out of your film by doing this? No one knows, if the film is stable, it will probably make little difference. The general rules are "cool, dry, dark" and specifics are in several Eastman Kodak publications (see "Care and Storage of Motion Picture Films") and might even be available from their web based library.

John

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 02, 2005, 11:08 AM:

Very good question, as I store all my Eastman color stock feature films in the fridge. The important thing is to keep moisture from your films. So, here's wat t do if you choose to store in the fridge :

Use the best zip-lock bags to store your films in, (they do make "Jumbo size" bags too) but make sure that you put a "selica gel" pack in your zip-lock bag. That's one of those things that they put in stuff you buy in order to keep moisture from the item while in shipping. If you go to your local department store, you might be able to convince someone in charge to save them for you, (along with the curious look).

I have noted that snce putting selica-gel packs in with my zip-locked bag films, the moisture stays off really well!

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 02, 2005, 07:43 PM:

I can't help but wonder if these silica gels (although a clever idea) wouldn't cause the film to become TOO dry and brittle over time...

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 02, 2005, 09:50 PM:

Hmm, that's not a bad question, but I haven't seen any products protected by selica gel packets that become aged or brittle, but it is a good question.

OSI

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on August 03, 2005, 04:22 PM:

The best way to do this is the way Eastman does it with rawstock. The materials are "equalized" first in a room with the proper humidity for several days, then packed in bags and placed in cans and taped so the equalized atmosphere is captured in the can.

The cans can then be refrigerated or frozen. Upon removeal, they need to stand for a day to "thaw" to ambiant temp before untaping.

Not a good procedure for release prints, but excellent for long term storage of internegatives, rawstock, etc. Of course with rawstock you only have to observe the thaw cycle.

The bottom line is if the film is starting to turn or is a material that will turn, this will delay the eventual, not prevent it.

Same with VS. You can slow it down, but once it starts, it starts.

John

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 03, 2005, 06:10 PM:

Hey John I have a film print with a little VS. There's a product called "film-renew" out there, will that do a lot towards stopping the VS problem on it? Film-renew is supposed to return the films "limber-ness" (for lack of a better term at the moment) It's a treasured print and I'd hate to lose it too soon.

All the best!

OSI

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 03, 2005, 11:09 PM:

I also have one film with a slight case of VS, it's the Blackhawk full-length release of Charlie Chaplin's THE GOLD RUSH. Won it on eBay in its original box, on 4x400' reels, and when I opened it I got hit in the face by a cloud of vinegar stench! UGHH... but I left the reels in the open to air them out, then treated each one with FilmRenew twice, making sure to store the film in a cool place afterward. Well, it's been there for what must be two months by now, and the vinegar smell is practically not noticeable anymore... I don't expect the VS to have vanished (I know that's impossible) but it does seem that FilmRenew has nipped it in the bud for now. So it's definitely effective - if you apply it generously (by running your film through cleaners 2 or 3 times, or by soaking the print).

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 04, 2005, 10:59 AM:

Could somebody give me a website for purchase of film-renew? I'm hooked by the idea!

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on August 04, 2005, 12:11 PM:

this is where you can get some i may get some to as i have a some home movies with this syndrome to
http://www.urbanskifilm.com/
i have a question about storage if you do have a print with v.s and it is in can, can it affect other films nearby?

Posted by Steven Sigel (Member # 21) on August 04, 2005, 12:56 PM:

There are really no products that will cure vinegar.

Soaking a print in filmrenew (reverse wound - upsidedown and backwards) may help soften up the print so that it will project properly, but it wont cure vinegar...

As for storage -- it's theoretically possible for a print to "catch" VS from another infected print since the acetic acid that is off-gassing from the infected print can get onto the non-infected print. But the reality is that unless you seal them in a can together, I think it's pretty unlikely. In order for VS to start, the breakdown needs to be self-catalysing... However, even so, for safety's sake, I'd keep the VS prints well away from everything else...

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 04, 2005, 10:11 PM:

That's what I was meaning to say... my print of THE GOLD RUSH was beginning to break down but I was able to stop the process from becoming self-catalyzing (for now) by using FilmRenew and storing the film cool and dry, with air to breathe.
Here's one very informative thread about VS:
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001111#000000

Oh, and another thing - if you ever come across a product called Vitafilm which claims to be able to "cure" VS... don't believe the hype. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 05, 2005, 11:14 AM:

When you folks talk of "soaking" a print, does that mean getting a large vat (basin) and literally unreeling the film into it, and then, for how long? I have a print of Birth of a Nation and I don't want to lose it!

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 05, 2005, 01:43 PM:

That's it exactly - now as far as I know (but don't quote me on it) FilmRenew is the only product designed for soaking a print in it. Putting film in water = very bad, but putting film in FilmRenew = good. [Wink]

You do not have to unreel it either, just be sure to use a metal container (i.e. a metal 16mm can) and a metal reel since FilmRenew does soften and discolor plastic reels, and rather dramatically so if you soak your print for a week or longer.
For the soaking to have any noticable effect, I would recommend at least 3-4 days (in a closed container so it doesn't evaporate). After you take the reel out, you can even re-use the cleaner fluid for another soak or for regular cleaning! [Smile]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 07, 2005, 02:37 PM:

Thanks for the info! I'm going to leave this out in the open. I don't know who produced this "Birth of a Nation" print, but it really is the sharpest I've ever seen, on standard 8mm. I know it's not Blackhawk. It's kind of hard to tell with some of these older prints. I have a standard 8mm feature, "The Black Pirate" (Douglas Fairbanks Sr.), and it's very good, not as good as "Birth", but once again, it's not a Blackhawk, and I'll probably never know who put it out.

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on August 09, 2005, 12:12 PM:

Hey Jan, if you soak a film that has vs should one reuse the left over stuff or toss it and what measures are there to throwing this out, can one wash it down the sink? thanks [Smile]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on August 09, 2005, 08:36 PM:

That's a pretty darned good question (never thought of it), and I'm not 100% sure but would guess that any FilmRenew that has been used on a VS print is still safe to re-use, since it retains its own cleaning and lubing properties. It certainly shouldn't matter if you re-use such FilmRenew on estar/mylar films next. [Wink]

As for disposing of used FR, the label on my bottle states this: For disposal guidance, contact a hazardous waste program, or your local or state government control agency.
It's safe to say that means NOT to pour it down the drain...! [Eek!]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2