8mm Forum: elmo 1200 advice sought

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Posted by Scott G. Bruce (Member # 384) on November 20, 2005, 09:32 AM:

Hello everyone. Thinking about taking the plunge and buying an Elmo 1200. Don't think that I can afford the cadillac GS model at the moment (let alone Jan's modified 1600 when it escapes from his laboratory!!), so I'm considering an Elmo ST-1200HD. I know that the HD has fewer bells and whistles than the GS, but how much am I missing out in terms of performance and picture? What is the standard lens for an HD and what is optimal? Thanks in advance for your sage advice, SGB

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 20, 2005, 09:37 AM:

Hi Scott,

I am lucky to have both models and would be delighted to recommend the St1200HD. I doubt you are missing much , that is unless of course you enjoy problem solving and repairing GS1200's (lol)

I am not really all that clued up on light outputs but to be honest, I think if you get a good quality lens such as a schneider 1.1 Xenovaron or the Elmo 1.0 or 1.1 you would not really notice much difference against a standard GS1200 in average conditions.

The ST is built like a tank and if anything has been engineered down by Elmo which makes it for me an attractive long term machine. None of the microswitches and other fiddly bits on the GS. Of course you do lack convenient stereo but here again most stereo prints are not all that special in my humble opinion. Stick with DVD for sound.

Happy hunting

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 20, 2005, 10:17 AM:

Spot on Tony, when i was at the BFCC i had a chat with a few people and even the two dealers i spoke to agreed that the 1200HD is the one to own. It performs well, its built well, and is much less reliant on electronics. The GS is a lovely machine but its over the top on engineering. If your an electrician and you have the tools then maybe your ok but mechanics are a lot easier to repair and can often be overcome when original parts arnt availible. Id prefer to have two 1200HD's than GS's.
Lens wise, i'm trying to get a 1.0, at the moment i have a 1.1 wgich is very good, but the chaps on here did say the difference between the two is the difference between day and night, so now im hunting for a 1.0.
BTW, now ive rabbited on the gist of is the HD is ,,, oh balls, just read Tonys bit [Big Grin]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 20, 2005, 10:53 AM:

Let's see...

GS-1200: lots of 'tronics... four separate motors for take-up, rewind, film transport and cooling... 200W lamp and 1.1 lens standard... stereo recording and optical playback, ESS sync option... piano touch controls...

ST-1200HD: twin-track record/playback, stereo possible via external amp... less 'tronics, more mechanics, easier to maintain (I think - have yet to see a GS1200 with my own eyes)... one motor, 150W lamp, 1.3 lens standard... CONSIDERABLY cheaper, I should add [Wink]

... (except for my 1600ft version, of course, which will cost anyone dearly, and I mean dearly [Big Grin]

)... rotary knob control, nice and sturdy overall but likes to be maintained and kept clean - not just talking about the film path here but the innards like belts and pulleys. Also has the option of optical playback (M&O models)... if you can live with single-track sound, consider the ST-1200D but don't bother with the early ST-1200 models...

As for my 1200HD, it runs with a Schneider Xenovar 1:1.2 lens, maybe no match for a 1.1 or 1.0 lens but definitely a step up from the standard 1.3 lens, VERY sharp picture without a lot of hassle focusing it. Built-in sound is rather nice with a decent external speaker, too (have yet to try a stereo amp though). [Smile]

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 20, 2005, 11:01 AM:

Jan

I have seen a couple of 1.3 lenses that (to me) looked every bit as good as the 1.1!

Tom, as for the 1.0, I have heard some say it is hard to keep in focus but todate I have not had an issue though I am not sure I am a connosieur (or however it is spelt) and the difference between the 1.1 and the 1,0 for me is not really worth the addiitonal £100 or so they seem to command.

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 20, 2005, 11:12 AM:

I agree, 1.3 lenses are nothing to be knocked, but why go with "good" when you can do "better" [Big Grin]

That said, the Eiki 1:1.4 lens in my 16mm projector is fabulous and I've heard positive impressions of the Sankyo 1:1.4 lens as well.
I did have a Schneider Xenovaron 1:1.1 lens for a short time and although it did seem brighter than the Elmo 1.3 lens, I also thought that the picture was ever so slightly more yellowish, also the projected frame seemed to balloon very slightly (edges bulging out) rather than have a perfectly rectangular shape. Not sure if my eyes were just playing tricks on me? I did sell the lens to another forum member and was informed that he was very happy with it indeed. In the end, personal tastes matter just as much as the type of lens you go with. [Smile]

Posted by Scott G. Bruce (Member # 384) on November 20, 2005, 12:25 PM:

As I expected, you guys are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks so much for sharing your valued opinions. When are we going to see the Elmo 1600 in the stores, Jan? Recently I've been imagining it running amok as the instrument of a supervillian mad scientist from an old Fleisher Superman cartoon. Whoops! Perhaps I've given away too much, Jan?

Thanks again, SGB

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 20, 2005, 12:41 PM:

Jan, I have a Xenovaron 1.1 on my Elmo GS Xenon and I have never seen the bulging sides. Also I would like to add that the Schneider is certainly less yellow than the Elmos. Alan Rik got one of these lenses just recently and found exactly the same. Sounds like you might have had a bad example of this superb lens.

Kev.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 20, 2005, 01:32 PM:

Good advice Tony, maybe i'll stick with the 1.1 and use the xtra dosh to add to the film collection [Wink]

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on November 20, 2005, 01:38 PM:

Subjectively,the GS is a quieter machine than the ST.The GS sound quality is better than the ST.The GS has greater potential than the ST.Having said that,the ST is the workhorse of the Elmo range and is far less temperamental than the GS(for those of us who are not electronically gifted!) STs will be going when all GS's have found a new vocation-as anchors! [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 20, 2005, 02:12 PM:

if i ever win the lottery and get a repair guy on stand by i'll definatly get one. Mind you, if a bargin ever comes my way 500 or under i couldnt say no. [Big Grin]

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 20, 2005, 03:44 PM:

Kevin:
I don't remember exactly now but I think the 1.1 lens that Alan Rik got came from me... and I got mine from Ian what's-his-name... (OMG, I can't remember his name...argh). Maybe I'm really remembering it wrong, maybe something else was wrong with my machine at the time that I wasn't aware of. Best to just ignore my previous comment about the Schneider 1.1 lens, certainly I have no intention of putting a dent in its reputation [Eek!]

Scott:
Well... you seem very interested in my 1600ft mod, maybe I should have it patented [Big Grin]

All it really is is new, modified reel arms - the rest of the machine remains completely unchanged, with the exception of a necessary take-up clutch adjustment to complement the 2:1 ratio of the take-up arm gears. In other words, you could conceivably put these longer reel arms on a GS1200... and have an uber-projector with up to 2000ft capacity... [Eek!]

Though I have no idea just how much torque those winding motors are designed to take. (Don't worry, Kevin, I'm just letting my imagination run wild here) [Wink]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 20, 2005, 03:49 PM:

Jan is that a padded lab u work in. [Big Grin]

Posted by Scott G. Bruce (Member # 384) on November 20, 2005, 06:18 PM:

I must say, Jan, the images you posted recently certainly made an impression! I was impressed, then intimidated, then impressed again. Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility. Right, Kev?

Thanks again for all of your thoughts on this matter. SGB

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on November 20, 2005, 08:34 PM:

Not padded, but I do have carpeting in my room (and way too much gear scattered all over it) [Wink]

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