8mm Forum: Close Encounters of the Third Kind feature

This is topic Close Encounters of the Third Kind feature in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 27, 2016, 02:16 PM:

A long shot but i'll give it a go. I have always been curious has to how many own a copy of the feature, I do but would any of you guys come forward and say you do, I doubt it make much difference now as to whether the official numbers match what the actual count is, or will it be like the "x " files, where the truth is out there -----.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on November 27, 2016, 02:24 PM:

Unfortunatly i dont Paul, but i cannot believe i never bought one when i could, i watched this in the cinema 17 times when it was released. Several times i sat through the afternoon matinee and stayed for the tea time performance.
I suspect this would demand a nutty price way out of my range now,(and why not as there were only around 20 produced) Derann jumped the gun & sold copies before being given the go ahead by Columbia, they had to retract the sales or face losing the rights to all other Columbia 8mm titles they were doing. Hence why other titles in one of there catalogues didn't see the light of day.

Posted by David Watson (Member # 3614) on November 27, 2016, 02:50 PM:

Hi Paul, I don't mind telling you I have a Derran full length copy of
Close encounters, You're Right it would be interesting to know how many copies are out there, I 've heard say 10 copies and then 12 copies and
even up to 20 copies ?? who really knows?.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on November 27, 2016, 02:53 PM:

Paul, I know of one other collector who has a print of this for sure besides yourself and David here.

I wish it was me but sadly this is not the case. [Smile]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 27, 2016, 04:16 PM:

Thanks David, two copies with Andrews known copy 3, Robert Tucker certainly had one earlier on in the year so perhaps 4, maybe he could confirm this. I read it was 20 David, but didn't Derann print side by side copies ?. So if we have 4 copies, that's 1/4 to David's quote, just 8 more to find.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 27, 2016, 04:45 PM:

I got my print in 2004. At the time I was told there were 10 prints in existence.

Doug

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 28, 2016, 10:07 AM:

Thanks Doug. I now hear it could be as many as 26 copies !!!!.My count is now a tentative 6 copies, anyone else want to come forward, its a bit like the Elmo count we were doing some months ago but a lot less numbers, be good to find all these owners.

Posted by Melvin England (Member # 5270) on November 28, 2016, 11:08 AM:

Were these prints all cinemascope or flat, or a mixture of both?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 28, 2016, 11:27 AM:

If there are ten copies as of when Doug bought his, then there is at least 11, as I have a copy, but my copy is NOT the Derann release! It's a super 8 scope feature, but it's the 1977 version and not the 1980 re-issue "Special Edition", (which is great as well).

There has been much speculation as to exactly WHERE this 1977 version actually came from, and i don't think we'll ever really know, but it's on low fade film stcoks as well. here is a link to a youtube video of some of the last reel that I put up on, well, youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSct449Ygh4

BTW, my apologies, when I did this video, I must have had the the speed at about 26 or so seconds, a little fast. The sound on this print was very good as well, though mono.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on November 28, 2016, 12:30 PM:

I know of three copies of Close Encounters in Northern Ireland.

One collector is now dead I am not sure if it was resold or son kept collection.
Another copy the collector sold up to go digital print was offered to me but not my taste I believe it was either sold on to another collector or exchanged with Derann for DVD projector.

The last print is still with a film collector who is still active.

There is definitely more than 12 around. A lot were pre sold to collectors before the title was widely announced. The exact figures will never be known realistically who is going to publicise they have title. It was also rumoured you could still get the title after Derann ceased to supply if you were prepared to pay.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 28, 2016, 01:39 PM:

Thanks Mike. Why would it be shrouded in secrecy after 40 years is beyond my comprehension really. I would have thought the collectors would have been proud to say they had a copy, maybe that's just me. So that's 9 + osi's odd ball one, from a source truly out of the unknown. Well it was 3 Sunday night, were up to 10 now, that's a good response I think, keep um coming guys.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on November 28, 2016, 03:33 PM:

Paul , I would suspect that some of the collectors would stil be worried about declaring their ownership because of copyright. The reason why Close Enciounter didn't continue to be an official release was that they didn't have copyright or rights to issue and they received stern instructions from either Columbia or Spielberg's lawyers to discontinue , return all negatives and prints. Whether they had to pay compensation who knows. I think there was also a warning do this again and we will be back to bankrupt you and try and see if we can get you some jail time. The prints that got out were a bit like the Hardy Kruger film " The Ones that Got Away" Rumours always circulated that our European cousins who seem to be the only real source for negatives these day could supply a print but with striping and English conversion it may be in the same price range or more as the much talked about well worn Terminator II .

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 28, 2016, 03:44 PM:

Good point Mike. So if any one wants to pm if there worried about a knock on the door please do. I imagine the film companies would be more busy chasing the real pirates and boot legers of dvd to be interested in a few copies of this film, but I guess if they can make an example of someone they would.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on November 28, 2016, 04:13 PM:

Paul, I would totally agree with you in the points you stated but the same thing could have been said when the 8mm release was issued yet they came down hard. Creative ownership more than the money involved would seem to be the issue.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 28, 2016, 04:55 PM:

I'm intrigued Mike, did Derann seek retrospective permission to print this after they had made the necessary negs to print from and run them off first, because ifs that's the case, I'd be pissed off too, or was it the work of a jobsworth ?.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on November 28, 2016, 05:04 PM:

Paul from what I was told I think they thought they had a deal with Columbia to release and were fine. They were open about doing it and advertised the release. The Spielberg element seems to have created contractual problems and that caused the issue.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 28, 2016, 05:37 PM:

Thanks Mike, that explains it now.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 29, 2016, 02:37 AM:

My understanding of it is this...

Rights obtained from Columbia to issue super 8 prints (so they are perfectly legal). In fact it was a huge coup at the time. They were openly advertised and shown at Blackpool.

Rep from Columbia pays unannounced visit to Derann (or the lab) and sees 16mm prints are being struck from the 16mm negative...

End of Columbia contract... naughty, naughty [Eek!]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on November 29, 2016, 02:47 AM:

Yes it's a shame that occasionally we hear of stories where trust has been broken with these things.

Had greed not had reared its ugly head at times, I'm certain a completely trustworthy arrangement between any two parties, would have paid higher dividends overall.

Well certainly for us lot now,it may of done.

Still, we can't grumble I suppose. [Wink]

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 29, 2016, 11:07 AM:

AHHHHH, but we can cherish finding those rare prints, eh? [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on November 29, 2016, 12:33 PM:

Yes Osi, we can celebrate finding those rare prints, as long as you don't own up to it. I thought I was clear about this, and now Rob throws a swerve ball in, are you saying rob that the film are legal to own on super 8, but no permission was given for the 16 mm print to be made, and so any prints from the negative must be destroyed?.

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on November 29, 2016, 01:12 PM:

Yes, Paul, the super 8 Derann prints were legal as far as I am aware.

Film for the Collector ran at the very least full page teasers for it (I'm away this week, but can look this up and post next week).

Derann presented this feature (the special edition version) at one of the spring Blackpool film fayres.

Certainly this was not the same approach as selling the "import" or "specials".

It was very much advertised for sale.

And they certainly had a Columbia deal at the time.

So, my sources tell me that the reason this totally legit release fell apart was indeed because "knock off" 16mm prints were also being produced...and they were found out.

End of deal.

Actually, the consequences could have been much worse.

I know some people "in the know" can back me up here, and since this matter was settled between Derann and Columbia, and the former is long gone, it doesn't really matter any longer if anyone cares to add to this discussion...but suffice to say that your super 8 Derann prints were purchased in good faith and are safe.

The only reason the legit super 8 prints are limited is because the big D were naughty boys and had the plug pulled.

BUT, now, if you have gone to the trouble of producing a 16mm negative for a super 8 release of a big James C movie and then the distributor which you have the deal with goes bust (hello, "Carrolco")...do you bin the neg or print some "imports"...???

[Confused]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on November 29, 2016, 01:23 PM:

quote:
Film for the Collector ran at the very least full page teasers for it (I'm away this week, but can look this up and post next week).

Derann presented this feature (the special edition version) at one of the spring Blackpool film fayres.

Yes, I'm holding in my hand right now the March 1990 issue which has a full page ad, selling the Stereo Sound Version at £346.99.
In the same issue is the advert for Blackpool and the "8mm World Premiere" for the film.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on November 29, 2016, 01:32 PM:

What number is that one Michael, I will see if I have a copy?

Somewhere around 18 - 20 I'm guessing??

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on November 29, 2016, 01:39 PM:

Andrew its FFTC # 15. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on November 29, 2016, 01:40 PM:

Thanks David, most kind. [Wink]

Posted by David Hardy (Member # 4628) on November 29, 2016, 01:48 PM:

Andrew no bother at all. Your welcome. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on November 29, 2016, 04:00 PM:

Here was another Paul, don't know if Kevin still has it or not of course?

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002113

I suppose it is possible this one has now been counted in already given the time lapse since then.

It is highly possible it may have changed hands?

I am summizing Osi here, got a hold of his print sometime afterwards

Derann or otherwise, I am certain we would have been made aware if he had it back then. [Wink]

Still working weekends Doug BTW? [Big Grin]

[ November 29, 2016, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on December 01, 2016, 02:25 AM:

Thanks to Michael for looking that up.

I was certain it was an official release!

That original version that Osi owns is certainly a rarity though; personally I much prefer the original edit to the special edition.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 01, 2016, 11:59 AM:

I bought mine from a private collector and since I didn't know of any other super 8 scope features of CE3K, I naturally assumed that it was one of the rare Derann prints (I paid 500.00 at the time, that was a period when i had a LOT more cash at my disposal! [Smile]

)

... I was totally floored when it turned out to NOT be the Derann scope feature, but the original 1977 scope feature.

There has been a good deal of speculation about where this print came from originally. One guess is that it's one of the "oil Rig' features that were printed for lads out on, well, oil rigs!

Barry, at one time, many years ago, also had a complete scope feature of "Superman" (late 70's first feature film), in his shop, and no doubt, someone is holding onto that feature like gold, as it is also no doubt, quite rare, perhaps the last one of it's kind in existence!

Posted by David Watson (Member # 3614) on December 01, 2016, 01:15 PM:

Hi Osi,
Iv.e got a copy of the full feature of superman I . I was informed that a certain number of super 8 prints of this were made for the producers of Superman and were given to VIP guests at the American premiere of the film way back in I think 1978.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 01, 2016, 01:27 PM:

What a great story David, a great find in your goodie bag at any premiere, sadly I never get an invite.

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on December 01, 2016, 01:31 PM:

So Osi, it's an unofficial bootleg, I'd rather have the special edition. Assuming Derann had access to the original 35mm negs.

I do find with any Super 8 release unless it's been sourced from the original studio neg. And not a neg made from either a 35 or 16mm commercial released print. The quality varies, along with the colour pallett.

I think Jason & The Argonauts was also in the Columbia deal. Now I wonder if the number of prints circling could be similar?

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on December 01, 2016, 01:35 PM:

David, I did hear that director Richard Donner ordered several super 8 scope prints for the "production team" at the time of release.

Fascinating...how is your print???

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on December 02, 2016, 11:45 AM:

That is fascinating!!!

I had heard the story of it potentially being a "oil rig' print, but I wonder if, perhaps, Speilberg might have done the same thing for those involved in the making of the film, CE3K?

Perhaps it was an official, unofficial, requested short run of prints?

I don't know if I'll ever know, I'll just cherish it! [Smile]

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on December 02, 2016, 02:45 PM:

I have Jason and the Argonauts from Derann. Great print.

Posted by David Watson (Member # 3614) on December 03, 2016, 01:42 PM:

Hi Rob,
my scope print of superman is still in pretty good fettle still plenty of colour, a bit of negative sparkle here and there its on 5 x 600' reels sounds not quite as loud as my 6 reel version but clear enough, the scope format does make it better though.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on December 04, 2016, 12:30 PM:

Was waiting to tell my story. I bought this off of Ebay Germany and was recorded in German and mounted on 1000 foot reels. I watched the whole thing in German then had Lance re-record back into english after I got a DVD of the special edition. It is one of Derann's very best releases. I do miss the part where Neary goes crazy and throws everything inside his home.

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on December 04, 2016, 12:44 PM:

Thanks Larry. My copy also came from Germany and Ebay like yours it had been recorded into the native language. This confirms also that a few copies went to Europe, but it would seem are coming back one by one. The print quality is as good as the best from Derann I agree and the fact that its not the standard version makes it more special for me.

Posted by Mike Newell (Member # 23) on December 04, 2016, 05:06 PM:

So from reading the threads above there seems to be at least two sources of CE3K.
One being from Derann before it was pulled and a German import source [Eek!]

that always used to magically appear. The German link with Derann would likely originate back as far as the infamous slightly blue Cinema Cinema promo reel which gave some collectors a few red faces.

Makes you wonder did they source a original master and print in Europe then Derann striped and recorded.

This would tie with a memory of a conversation I had with a Derann staff member who offered me Close Encounters long after the initial fuss died down.

I suppose Jurassic Park would be another rare feature release that wouldn't have too many prints around plus how many collectors bought Titanic which was way expensive to buy plus striping and recording costs weren't included.

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