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You need to have your hard drive reformatted to NTFS this will stop your camcorder stopping after five minutes.

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Perhaps you have not heard of that if the file reaches its max limit set in either Fat32 or Fat16 it switches the camcorder off if connected with firewire, or did you not know that.

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Obviousely you must be an expert and me who does this for a living knows nothing so I will leave it up to you now and I will not bother posting anymore.

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... so why does his Canon MVX 3i stop while he's not having any problems with his Canon UC 2000? Even though the UC 2000 can only be attached to the PC's video-in via some cinch- or s-vhs-cables (and hence can't be stopped from the PC), at least his "video recording software" should stop after the same 5min if the file has reached a maximum size or if the harddisk is full?!
 

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Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on August 09, 2007, 02:22 PM:
 
I´m with John Clancy on this one -you can get very good quality simply filming front-projected footage.
I find the following works very well: project your footage with a two-blade-shutter GS 1200 set to either "roughly" 16,7 or 25 fps (I find it runs so evenly that you don´t need chrystal control to eliminate flicker). Chrystal controlled 25 fps however is essential if you need every frame of film to correspond to one "frame" of video.
Use either a good quality plastic screen material (no visible structure) or plain white paper and be sure to set your projector DEAD 90 degrees to the screen. Next place your video camera behind and as close as you can get to the GS, for minimum keystoning of image.
I find 1/50 shutter speed, or a "slow speed" if the camera has that, works best. Use the best quality video camera you can get your hands on.
You can get results that intecut well with professionally scanned (to the tune of $500 per hour) material.
Best wishes,
Lars
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on August 09, 2007, 06:15 PM:
 
This is good information,
but what should I do here in the USA?
NTSC runs at 29 fps?, and the
projector runs at 24fps.


 

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Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on August 10, 2007, 01:14 AM:
 
Brad Miller had good tips on how to do do-it-yourself transfers in the US, why not search for that earlier thread or contact Brad directly?

best wishes,
Lars
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 02:07 AM:
 
Setup the projector next to the videocamera so they are as close together as possible (the videocamera being on the non-operator side of the projector). I usually set the videocamera just above and to the left so that the reels *almost* get in the picture.

Zoom the image as small as you can and shoot from a good distance. This will help you buy some depth of focus in your lens as well as virtually eliminate keystoning.

Shoot onto a piece of white formica. Seriously, this works amazing.

Use a 24P DV videocamera, such as the Panasonic DVX-100. These can be had quite cheap these days and work magnificently (it's what I use).

Record in 24PA (advance pull down mode) so you can author your DVDs at a true 24FPS later without the extra duplicated frames.

Set the videocamera's shutter speed as high as you can. You will notice strobing on the viewfinder. Adjust the fine speed adjustment on your projector very carefully until you have eliminated this. Warning - some projectors will vary their speed a little bit as the takeup reel gets fuller!

Now lower your videocamera's shutter speed, because at a high shutter speed you will have poor results because the camera will be capturing the shutter blades. I usually turn it down to 1/48 to guarantee that I don't accidentally pick up 2 frames of film into one video frame, but any higher and you risk capturing the spinning shutter. Also the lower your shutter speed is, the less chance your videocamera has to compensate by turning up the gain which increases grain...this is also why you want to project to a small image shot at least 15 feet away, so you can maximise the amount of light your projector puts out.

If you find yourself getting a hot spot in the middle of the picture with dark corners, make yourself a diopter to sit in front of the lens. This can be as simple as a small round object dangled in front of the lens (close to the lens) that is blocking the middle of your projected image. (Ideally this is done between the lamp and film gate, but if you get it small enough you can do it in front of the lens. Alternatively you can put a very small dot on a piece of glass and experiment with the glass' placement in front of the lens to eliminate the hot spot.)

Remember to record 10 seconds of nothing before the first frame of "film to save" hits the screen! DV cameras usually need 5 seconds of solid timecode before you can start capturing the footage into some non-linear editing programs, and it's always a good idea never to use the first few seconds of a tape anyway.

Also note that a 2 bladed shutter works best for 24FPS footage!

If you need to transfer 18FPS, the ideal solution is to transfer it at 24FPS using a 24P camera as I detailed above and then slow it down to 18FPS in a non-linear editing program such as Adobe Premiere. The end result will be EXACTLY 18FPS transfer and very smooth. Your other option is to transfer at 20FPS and shoot at a normal video framerate of 30FPS, which looks bad.
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on August 11, 2007, 10:49 AM:
 
Brad,

Thank you for the detailed information
regarding film transfers. Can sound films
use this method too?

If I have an 8mm projector that is
not variable and set at
16 or 18 fps, how do I get around this?

Also check out this site below.

Are you familiar with this organization?
What do you think of it?
Otherwise it is expensive
and I do not know how sound
films can be transferred also?

DV Work printer at Movie Stuff
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on August 11, 2007, 02:01 PM:
 

quote:

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If I have an 8mm projector that is
not variable and set at
16 or 18 fps, how do I get around this?

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That's simple. You buy a new projector with variable speed. (Sorry, but that's the only solution, otherwise you WILL have a flicker regardless of the video equipment you use.)

Regarding that site, my parents used to have a Montgomery Ward dual 8 projector that was EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE PICTURED! It had no sprockets and relied on the single perforation claw to pull it through the machine. The film just dragged across a plastic raceway inside and scratched the hell out of everything we ever ran through it, including many digests I bought brand new. They would have noticeable scratching almost immediately. Stupidest projector design ever.

By the way, is this first picture showing a light dimmer being used as a motor speed control???

These guys seem to have a good idea, but I would avoid them at all costs based upon what I saw happen to my parent's home movies on that same sprocketless projector.

As far as sound goes, just tie into your headphone jack. Do note you will need a line in jack, not a microphone in jack. In the case of the DVX-100, you will have to run the volume extremely low or ideally run it through an attenuator. I think Radio Shack still makes them.
 

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Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on August 11, 2007, 02:19 PM:
 
But Brad, this CineMate unit is a bargain at only $1195.00, and not only that " The sprocketless drive protects your customers' films from the potential damage typically found on other sprocket driven projectors and transfer devices".

What a rip off!
 

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Posted by Lars Pettersson (Member # 762) on August 12, 2007, 01:46 AM:
 
Micheal, Brad´s suggestion you buy a projector with variable speed may be your best bet. If you can find an Elmo GS 1200 (sometimes they turn up in mechanically fine, but cosmetically terrible condition, and can be had relatively cheap), equip it with a 2-blade shutter (Wittner´s is good quality) and slave it to a 24 fps chrystal device (search for threads on Pedros boxes), you will have flicker free, perfect sound (to/from DVD, VHS, etc) transfers.
With some care, your transfers will be as good as most people would ask for, the next level being laborious and complicated ways of actually capturing images in the projector´s gate.

Best Wishes,
Lars
 

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Posted by Kobus Kortmann (Member # 876) on August 12, 2007, 07:17 AM:
 
Some info about how I am doing now: I use the Canon MVX3i on the Tv mode with a speed of 25; A blocked tape makes that the camcorder doesn't stop after 5 minutes and the microphone switch on manual together with an extern microphone plugged in, but turned off, makes that the projector sound is not recorded.
My projector is an Heurtier duovox set on 18 as this was the speed that I took my films. I am using the Hama box, as I have not a projection screen available. Results are reasonable, but I still try to improve the focusing and try to find out the best distance between Projector - Hama - Camcorder. All together nice work for this rainy summer.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on August 12, 2007, 01:42 PM:
 
I've found by doing the step above in regards to raising the video camera's shutter to fine tune the speed (then turn the camera's shutter down), a crystal sync unit is unnecessary.
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on August 13, 2007, 12:09 AM:
 
I am also looking to transfer Standard 8mm film,
so I guess that I would need a proj. with a variable
control.

What I found fascinating about the work printer
is that the projector has a unique method of
clicking the computer to a sync or tone
to pull down the 29 fps to 24 fps.

I wonder if there is something on the
shutter blade that elicits the pulse
to activate the capture to the video
source?
 

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Posted by Kobus Kortmann (Member # 876) on August 16, 2007, 02:25 AM:
 
This is my "work place". You see the projector, the notebook, the "Hama" and the DV camcorder. Between the Notebook and the Hama my Externe harddisk.


 

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 16, 2007, 03:28 PM:
 

Jesus H Christ, I think i'll send mine off the Mr Wilton to do,
Seems much much easier
 

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Posted by Craig Hamilton (Member # 258) on August 17, 2007, 09:23 AM:
 
Tom
I'm with you

Craig
 

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Posted by Dave Alligan (Member # 800) on August 17, 2007, 10:14 AM:
 
If anyone is interested in having cine film transferred to DVD or video have a look at www.gmsd.co.uk
or ring 07946 647455

I should have said that their is 10% discount to all forum members.

[ August 17, 2007, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Dave Alligan ]
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on August 26, 2007, 08:55 PM:
 
Brad,

I have heard that GOKO made
8mm and Super 8mm transfer boxes,
that contains a prism which
adjusts the frame rate for video transfer.

How are these units?
 

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Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on August 28, 2007, 12:27 PM:
 
Integrated Imaging in Casper, Wyoming here in the U.S. does excellent transfer work. I've had several reels of my super 8 transferred to digital 8 tapes by them. I then transfer them via firewire to my PC studio program where I edit, add transitions, titles, & menus; and burn to DVDs.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on August 30, 2007, 11:43 PM:
 
The prism introduces weird motion artifacts. I don't like them.
 

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Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on September 03, 2007, 09:51 AM:
 
Brad,
When creating digitized footage using the
Panasonic DVX-100,will the transfer from analog
film to digital media retain the film like quality
in 24P ?

The second question is it possible for the transfered
video digital signal created in either Home Movies,
Laser Disc or DVD become imported into the
Panasonic DVX-100 using the 24P mode, become transferred
back to any format of film at a digital to film transfer house?

So that 8mm can be upgraded to 70mm, 35mm, 16mm?

Or would it at least look excellent without loosing
quality in 16mm?
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on September 10, 2007, 12:47 AM:
 
#1 yes

#2 no, you wouldn't want to blow up DV.
 

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on September 10, 2007, 03:34 AM:
 
Out there you will find many gadgets to effect transfer of cine down to the electronic medium. My first experience was in the 70’s when my Dad and I got into video using the Philips 1500 VCR, and if memory serves me right this was about 1974. Before long we worked our way through the various formats and wound up with a piano key VHS machine from JVC (the first one) and a few months later a colour camera.
Similar to this one:


Within a year or so Sony had made available a telecine transfer unit and we landed a good few jobs transferring various 16mm private film collections onto VHS for societies who used film to show at members meetings.
Here is the unit from Sony

The Sony box gave acceptable results and many of these are still in use today I know. Thankfully the early colour cameras using Newvicon tubes were replaced by CCD imaging devices and today we can get quite good results from a decent 3 chip digital camcorder and well monitored equipment during transfer. Of course there is no such thing as a totally digital camcorder as the CCD itself is a analogue device.

In later years I set up a media business and part of that is offering telecine transfers of all sub standard (as they are known) film gauges. At the top end of the scale you have a number of machines available to give top results, but it rather depends on how good the master film is and how much money you want to throw at the job.

Here we use the semi pro Ariel Optical system which I have developed over a number of years and swapped things around trying to get a better transfer. Some of the jobs undertaken in the past have wound up in UK TV programmes and the majority are for home movie makers or collectors who want to retain film collections on DVD for which they own copyright.

The Ariel Optical system relies on a low intensity lamp in a modified projector, and the rest is a matter of having plenty of know how and a professional camera with removable lens mount. The results are good enough for most, and for those wanting to go the extra mile I usually pass onto the BBC telecine unit which is very expensive but superbly executed.

Hope this little insight into how I got into cine transfers is of help, but at the end of the day any transfer is a drop in quality and I myself only archived my own films onto DVcam tape in case the films got damaged in future years.

Happy days.

PS: If are filming off the wall try and use a light grey matt card as it will help take some of the heat (hot spot) out of the projected image.

[ September 10, 2007, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]
 

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Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on September 10, 2007, 11:24 AM:
 
Surely it should be the other way round....
Transferring DVD to super 8
 

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Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on September 10, 2007, 12:32 PM:
 
Why not transfer Super 8 up to 70mm, down to STD 8 and then flying spot it to Low density open reel 405 line video and finally upscale in Final Cut HD.
That would be something.

Who remembers open reel low density video I wonder or VHD?




Thank goodness Super 8 is still going...
 

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Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on September 12, 2007, 04:46 PM:
 
Tony...
 

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Posted by Freddy Van de Putte (Member # 587) on September 17, 2007, 04:14 AM:
 
Hello everybody,

I have wonderful results with a machine vision camera:
www.super-8.be

1966 Kodachrome Regular-8 frame:


Fred.
 

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