HELP: Questions about the 1910's Pathé projectors!

[Marie Bossik]

Hello everyone,

Feels fantastic to have been made part of the community - thank you so much. I'll be forthright and say that I have little to no experience with the old projectors (or projectors in general) and am seeking out what is probably going to sound like very foolish newbie assistance! (On that note, I sincerely hope I've posted this in the right forum; I tried to do a search beforehand for where to post.)

I'm working on a project pertaining to the family of the former Russian Tsar Nicholas II. They were said to have received a Pathé projector shortly before the Revolution, upon which they watched a number of silent films. (Specifically, it seems one of the children received one, too - I don't know if these were the same or different ones.) I also can't seem to figure out any of the details despite careful searching, so I would love to know if anyone might have more specific ideas about the Pathé projectors from that time.

The details I would specifically love to know was how big these might have been (weight and overall size, and if they could have been easily transported), if they used a hand crank or could be used electrically (the last Tsar's family supposedly had theirs set up to their electricity), etc. Of course if anyone knows about the films projected on the old Pathé projectors, too, that would be awesome!

Any help at all is much appreciated. Thank you for your time, everyone! 🙂 Happy Holidays to you all!

[Joerg Polzfusz]

I would assume that they have had a projector for 28mm films (aka Pathé KOK): http://www.pathefilm.uk/twentyeight/28kok.htm

[Maurice Leakey]

...I would assume that they have had a projector for 28mm films (aka Pathé KOK}...

Here is an interesting video on this projector.
1911 Pathe Frere KOK Home 28mm Cine Projector - YouTube

[Chris Bird]

There were also portable (or semi-portable) 35mm Pathé projectors. This, for example, is the NAF model from 1917:
http://cinematographes.free.fr/pathe...otice-naf.html

I'm not sure when the first of these portables was available - they're all based on the same basic Pathé projector head, which is in turn based on a Lumière design originally. One of these machines can be seen in the film KOENIGSMARK (1923), and there is a frame enlargement of it in Gerald McKee's book 'A Half Century of Film Collecting'. There's a fine example of this type of machine on display in the Cinema Museum in London.

The earlier Pathé heads are small and compact, so it's not impossible Tsar's family had one based on something like this:
http://www.cinegraphica.be/2016/03/3...ouza-rond.html
(I used to have one of these and stupidly sold it...)

But as Joerg and Maurice have said, a Pathé KOK 28mm projector is quite a likely guess.

[Dominique De Bast]

There's a fine example of this type of machine on display in the Cinema Museum in London.

I know nothing about 35 mm projectors. Is it this one ?

[Marie Bossik]

Wow, thank you so much, all of you! I'm deeply grateful for the support, though apologize sincerely for obviously having posted it in the wrong forum. I did wonder if it might be 28mm, but I didn't see a spot for that so just tried to make the next best guess. I really appreciate the patience. I've started going through all the information you've sent and will try to figure out what makes the most sense for that time period.

Any guesses as to how it might have been connected to electricity, and/or weight of the projector? (Of course, I'll see if it's mentioned in the resources you've sent as well - so thank you!) I'm still also hoping to find some of the films from that time, though I know that will be quite a chore.

Super grateful, much thanks! 🙏

...
The earlier Pathé heads are small and compact, so it's not impossible Tsar's family had one based on something like this:
http://www.cinegraphica.be/2016/03/3...ouza-rond.html
(I used to have one of these and stupidly sold it...)...

Oh, that's a tremendous shame! There's no chance you can get it back either, is there?

[Maurice Leakey]

...There were also portable (or semi-portable) 35mm Pathé projectors...

I doubt if any early 35mm film was printed on safety stock as nitrate was then the norm.
Have a look at Dominque's picture of a 35mm projector with enclosed spool boxes. Obviously for nitrate film.

[Chris Bird]

Hi Dominique and Maurice. Dominique's photo is not of a projector. It is - I think - a recording device to record 35mm optical sound on film. The magazines are therefore not related to nitrate safety per se, but to keep the film light tight - they are the same kind of magazine as used on 35mm Wall cameras, and will also fit Bell and Howell 35mm movie cameras. The projector I referred to in my earlier post, which I said was on display at the Cinema Museum, is identical to the one shown in my first link. It's on the shelves behind the bar in the main room upstairs.

Marie, a Pathé 28mm KOK projector is about the same size and weight as a sewing machine of the period. The original version uses a dynamo to power the lamp, and is cranked by hand so doesn't require an external electrical source. But as I say, it could also be one of the slightly larger Pathé machines potentially, with varying degrees of portability. The one in my first link dates to 1917, so could also - just - be the type of machine used by the Tsar's family.

35mm safety film in the silent era was certainly very rarely used, but it was used sometimes. I have an original print of a 1918 cartoon which is on 35mm safety stock, and Kevin Brownlow's Napoleon book mentions that some of the original French prints of that film were made on safety stock.

[Dominique De Bast]

Dominique's photo is not of a projector. It is - I think - a recording device to record 35mm optical sound on film. The magazines are therefore not related to nitrate safety per se, but to keep the film light tight - they are the same kind of magazine as used on 35mm Wall cameras, and will also fit Bell and Howell 35mm movie cameras.

Thanks for that precious correction. I sadely, then, didn't picture that projector in the museum.

[Marie Bossik]

Just wanted to send my thanks again to everyone here. The resources you sent over were an immense help, and I've been digging in trying to figure everything out. Many thanks! I hope you all have a wonderful New Year's ahead!