Elf RT-1 - Take Up struggles, then stops. Quick question about cork lining thickness.

[Can Sanalan]

Hi,

I'm having an issue with the take-up on the Elf RT-1. After 800ft or so the film is wound on in an oval shape and close to 1800ft the take up just stops, and if I'm not quick enough to switch it off the lamp burns a hole in the film!😬

I found, via searching the old forum, that Simon McConway had a similar issue.
Here is the thread.

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-b...5;t=000459;p=1

He resolved the issue by changing the cork lining in the arm.

I don't know if Simon is on this website, but I just wanted to find out of the two cork thicknesses he received, 1mm and 1.5mm, which one worked.

(Also similar issue here:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...-advice-please
Which led me to the old forum via the link.)

[Michael O’Regan]

Hi. Yes, I had a similar issue but not to the point where the take-up actually stopped. It became very loose. I ended up fitting a new rear assembly from an older machine that I had lying around and also lubing the spindle but not the cork lining. This seems to have solved the problem.

[Juergen Kellermann]

(1) You say that you burn a hole into the film, if you don't switch the projector off. This would mean that the film also stops in the gate, i.e. the whole projector is not moving the film forwards.

If only the take up is not working, then the film should still continue running through the gate and pile up on the floor behind the projector. It would not burn a hole into the film.

But according to your post, the film stops in the gate. This sounds to me like a more serious issue with the mechanism, and not only an issue of the cork in the take up.

(2) In my experience, it also helps to use a heavier and larger metal reel for take up. This puts a bit more force onto the cork clutch. And a heavier reel also has more torque and does not stop so easily.

[Can Sanalan]

Yes Juergen, I agree.
At first the take up was the only issue, going slack and eventually slowing down while the film was still running through the gate.
However, only recently, couple of days ago and last night, around 1800ft into the reel of film. the projector stopped, again, this time both take up and feed. Though the motor was still running, seems like power from the motor was not going to the camtank which most likely means the belt is faulty along side an issue with the take up arm perhaps.

So I tried another film, this time a 400ft reel and the whole thing went smoothly. No problems.

Once it passes 1000ft that's when I notice the film winding up in an oval shape on the take up arm.
Hence why I think it's the cork on the take up and now, also possibly, a worn belt between the motor and camtank.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

I'm pretty sure you're having 2 separate problems at the moment - loose/stretched motor belt, and worn out cork lining in the takeup hub.

If I'm not mistaken those motor belt in RT series projector is merely a large o-ring (poly-v belt started to appear in NT series) so it shouldn't be too hard to find the replacement. Regrding the cork lining since I have NT, not RT series projector, so I'm not sure if that's same thickness. But if I can get over my laziness I may dig my Eiki out and have a measurement then.

[Can Sanalan]

I ran some tests on the projector to isolate the cause.

1. I ran the projector with no reels loaded. Had the back open to inspect while it was running.
All was fine.

2. Attached a fully loaded 2000ft reel to the take up arm, ran the projector and all was fine again. The take up was turning fine with a full 2000ft reel.

3. Then I attached a 4/5 full 2000ft reel on the take up arm and the remaining 1/5 of film on the feed reel,
projector was running fine but I noticed the take up slightly slowing down and then it stopped.
This is when the projector seized up again.

I left it running to inspect what could be the cause.
The motor was running fine.
But the belt wasn't turning and it started making a high pitched sound from the friction of the metal motor pulley rubbing against the belt.


I then took off the cover of the take up arm and there was the culprit.
The belt had wedged itself in the lower pulley.

Hence why the projector seized up and nothing was turning (and why the lamp burns holes in the film).


I've uploaded videos on YouTube showing this.


Here are the links:

Elf RT-1

Full 2000ft reel on take up arm:
https://youtube.com/shorts/uEXgwulwrgA

Take up arm cover removed:
https://youtube.com/shorts/gNm3uz7nufs

Projector seized up:
https://youtube.com/shorts/B2l_VRa-aog

Take up belt jammed:
https://youtube.com/shorts/5MNFCEaFsmc


My only guess why the belt didn't fully jam before was because I switched the projector off as soon the machine seized up, but this time I left it running so it must of wedged itself in their tight.


This happened to me once before on the same projector.
The take up belt getting jammed.

Why is that?
Is it a fault with the belt itself? Too long perhaps? And why only when the take up reel is close to full capacity?

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Stretched takeup belt - definitely it. Maybe due to its age, which is not so surprising consider its age.

The exact replacement belt is sure available, but at a cost - $$$. If you have enough time to shop around you may be able to find o-ring of exact size & length as a replacement (that's how I find most of my projector's replacement belt).

[Can Sanalan]

Well the interesting thing is that belt was replaced not too long ago, only in January.
And it was a new belt.
I've now replaced it with another spare one I had, same supplier.

If this one does the same then I may need to find another belt from a different supplier.

In fact, regarding my other Elf, the NT, I need to again, change the motor belt on that, as the new belt has slightly sped up the audio, must be the wrong size.
I had a similar issue with my ST/M which I resolved with finding the correct size belt.

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...er-sound-speed

Which in fact Nantawat Kittiwarakul, you provided the solution to