16mm film not widing tight on reel after cleaning with filmguard

[Jim Schrader]

I recently cleaned a 16mm print per directions then went back to wipe off any excess to help polish it now the film doesn’t wind tight on the reel I ran it through the projector but the film was sagging I took it off to finish it on the rewinds but then the film doesn’t wind on the reel evenly I used the brake to help with tension its wound tight but not evenly side to side. Remember it was just cleaned.

[Daniel Bottom]

I have never used filmguard so take what you read below as an educated guess:

What may be happening, or has happened could be that some areas of the spool receievd lots of filmguard, others less as the fluid evaporates / gets applied to the film. This would alter the characteristics of the friction coefficient of the film. Some areas would wind tighter than others, and there would be areas on the film due to the fluid residue that would be able to slip past one another very easily / basically creating an area of looser wind.

I would think that the film would return to normal after a couple of days / a week when all the fluid has evaporated. I don't know whether there are any waxes in filmguard that would need to be coated _evenly_ on the film to stop this

What do other people think, a good idea or am I full of excrement ?

[Jim Schrader]

Daniel there were areas where I did flip my cloth over reapplied some new guard so yes that’s a possibility but I went back over it again on the rewinds to wipe any extra off so it would be applied evenly.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Some projector would have better / more powerful takeup than others. For example my Eiki NT-2 is very picky on this regard - it will not tight-wind some certain reelsno matter what. But my Elmo NEVER have that problem - it will wind any reels tight and nice, always.

One thing you may try however is to twist the film 180° before the takeup reel. Changing its orientation (emulsion in -> emulsion out, and vice versa) MAY help in some cases, and doesn't cost a thing.

[Bill Davis]

How much time passed between the point where you applied the FilmGuard and then ran the film on your projector?? I always let the print air out for a week or two after applying FilmGuard and have never had an issue where the print would wind loose on the take up reel. BTW I just finished cleaning a print with FilmGuard 10 minutes ago - the reel is still on my rewinds airing out.

[Jim Schrader]

it aired out overnight and ran it within a day or 2

[Steve Lee]

The problem is that filmguard was never meant to be applied with a cloth just once to a print.
It is meant to be used with a Kelmar film cleaner or such with media pads, on prints that are being run continuously.
Not just having it applied and then storing the print away, it needs to be run through the media pads over and over again for it to work.
By applying it with a cloth you no way of of removing it, as it will leave a streaky residue on the film. On a film cleaner the pads slowly move in the opposite direction to the film, so after severly runs the pads start to remove and distribute the filmguard on the print, as filmguard will not evaporate.

[Douglas Meltzer]

Jim, I've been applying FilmGuard using a cloth for over 22 years to both 16mm & 8mm and I've never had the rewind issue you describe. I'm not sure what could be causing that. Steve, while I do use the Film O' Clean Kelmar type cleaner on occasion, I use the cloth method more frequently without having streak issues. At CineSea, I've projected film that I've cleaned only minutes earlier. I apply it sparingly and when rewinding after the application I use a clean cloth with very little pressure to help dry.

[Jim Schrader]

Steve osbornes reel image website states using a clean cotton cloth just like I did

[Brian Fretwell]

It could be that it reacted badly with a previous film treatment if you havent't owned the print from new you wouldn't know what had been used on it.