Eiki NT1 - film on take-up reel film becomes too loose about midway through

[Xander van der Merwe]

Hello all,

I've just revived my 8mm/16mm hobby after a hiatus of 8+ years and acquired a good condition Eiki NT1 to supplement my CL-16.

The machine is in good running order, but I've noticed that the film on the take-up reel with standard forward projection starts being very loose from about midway through a 1,600ft reel and this happens to the point where you have to stop projection as the take-up reel will eventually stop turning altogether.

I've opened the take-up arm and cleaned everything out as best I could and the belt and cork clutch all look fine to my eye and nothing seems obviously wrong. My next plan of attack will be to remove the take-up arm cover and run the projector like that to see whether I can spot what the root cause is.

I've done a google search for the issue but have been unable to find anything obvious, although it looks to me like this may be a common NT1 issue?

I'd appreciate any advice as to how to remedy this as the rest of the projector works seemingly very well.

Thanks in advance

[Xander van der Merwe]

Perhaps the answer lies in this article under the section about low torque take up: http://www.reeldeals.com.au/eiki/eiki.htm

[Dominique De Bast]

Thanks for that interesting link, Xander. I didn't know about the screw that allows you to adjust the focus on both sides of the picture.

[Paul Barker]

it's supprising how many ELF/EIKI owners do not realise how these adjustments can be made. i am sure that link will be a great help to many.

[Maurice Leakey]

This Forum has a maintenance manual on the NT Eiki model.
http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/m...KINSERVICE.pdf

I quote from page 47 for "Take-Up Arm Assembly" :-

"It is essential that the take-up pulley is well lubricated and free running on the bushing. The cork liner on the spindle assembly must be well lubricated to provide a smooth take-up. Weak, or no take-up, may be caused by a worn cork liner or an oily belt."

The web-site quoted by Xander gives a complete opposite suggestion. This is to clean off all oil and grease from the cork clutch, and allow to dry, then to reassemble.

For over twenty years I have owned Elf (Eiki) projectors and it has always been my understanding that the cork washer should never be allowed to dry out.



Maurice

[Xander van der Merwe]

Thanks for all the comments and link to the service manual. It seems to me that the official NT1 service manual must surely be correct, so I’ve purchased silicon grease and will try that options first. I will report back as I progress...

[Maurice Leakey]

I have always used light machine oil as is sold for sewing machines.


Maurice

[Dominique De Bast]

Something strange. The feeding arm was not holdind automatically anymore. I put several months ago WD-40 but unsucessfully, so I had to open the rear cover each time and push manually the small piece that holds the arm. I read on Xander's links that what I did was the right thing but if that was not enough, lube should be put also on the other side and/or the operation should be repeated. I decided to put more lube but, guess what : the problem is solved ! The arm is now holding b itself as it did before without doing anything ! I did use my projector several (not to say many) times (including last Sunday) since I put WD-40 but the arm wouldn't stay firm when I put it up ! Maybe I should try to find a Twilligth Zone episode in 16 mm...

[Terry Sills]

Dom
I have the same problem on my NT2. I also tried to lubricate the button without much joy, but I find that if I rock the feed arm backwards and forward where it should lock into position it does eventually lock. Not an ideal solution but avoids any further investigations.

[Dominique De Bast]

Maybe that (and the WD-40 I put several months ago) solved the problem (since I moved the arm to put a spool each time I used the projector) and it was just a chance that it was fixed just the day I decided to have another look

[Xander van der Merwe]

I have isolated the Eiki take up arm issue to the take up belt. Greasing the cork clutch made no real difference, so it is not that after all, the take up belt remains stationary while the bottom metal spindle turns. I’ve cleaned everything nicely so not related to dirt.

I temporarily swapped the front belt with the rear and then it works perfectly, but I think the front belt is a bit thicker than the what the rear belt should be, so that is not an an option for now. The take up belt seems a little brittle to me, so I think I just need a replacement.

i note that there are a couple of places in the US that sells these belts so I’ll order a pair. I might also look at using O-rings, but prefer the real thing in this case I think.

[Maurice Leakey]

Xander

Many different suppliers had arm belts for Eiki projectors. Some better than others, some stretch, also some just snap. I suggest you buy from a fellow member, Richard C. Patchett.

Part number ST-13151 @ $30.

http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/EikiParts.htm#BELTS


Maurice

[Phil Clark]

I'm a bit late to this one but ...

" I've noticed that the film on the take-up reel with standard forward projection starts being very loose from about midway through a 1,600ft reel and this happens to the point where you have to stop projection as the take-up reel will eventually stop turning altogether."

This is, as has been mentioned, insufficient torque on the take up spool. This is a common issue with the EIKI/Elf machines. Series S, R and N projectors all use similar take up mechanisms. The correct size take up belt combined with the weight of the spool and the lubricated cork liner provides the correct friction for the spool to continue rotating as it fills up.

The takeup belt must be the correct size (4.5mm): too thin and the spool will stop part way through a 1600ft reel; too thick and excessive torque will then pull the film too much and it will likely jump out of the rear sprocket. Also the cork liner inside the take up must be in good nick (you can replace it with new if required - it's just cork gasket) and (important!) given a little lubricant to help it slip just the right amount on the metal hub. There's gen about this in the Eiki service manuals.

hth
Phil

[Richard C. Patchett]

Greetings Why do people think WD 40 is a cure all expressily on projectors As a service tech for over 30 years i never never use it
Its got grit in it

WD 40 specs
http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd482671453.pdf

Also on the spindle Do not oil or grease it No wonder it Slips with a new belt. Quoted it's just cork gasket) and (important!) given a little lubricant to help it slip

Thank you Maurice Leakey for the belt referral

[Phil Clark]

WD40 is not a lubricant - it is a solvent.

I didn't mention using it BTW!