B&H 2592 vs ELF rt2

[Russ Green]

Hi ive been collecting 8mm for quite some time on and off but would like a 16 mm projector what are peoples thoughts on these 2 theres one of each on ebay at the mo i dont wanns spend to much but would like to know the merits and negatives of each thanks Russ

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

From my (limited) experience this is my generic thought about these 2 brands.

I once owned B&H, forgot the exact model no. but pretty close to that 2592. While functionally excellent since it ticks every box (auto loader, opt-mag sound, 18/24fps, still/slow projection, you name it), it is A HELL to do any service on it. You may need hours even with proper tools&experience to replace that worm drive, which will be like to crack by now.

Comparing to Eiki that I recently acquired, you literally need nothing more than a set of standard screwdriver to service it. I eventually managed to take the cam assembly off/dismantle/re-grease/reassemble it without even having to take a look at the service manual. It is that simple.

In the part of the world where I'm living its serviceability would certainly play a big role to me. Your situ may differ, of course.

[Janice Glesser]

I'm going to second Nantawat's comments. I've stayed away from the B&H 16mm machine because of the high probability of a cracked worm gear. I actually prefer my Elmo 16CL for 16mm film projection....but I do have an Eiki that I use for telecine work. I'm very impressed with this projector and how well it's made. I haven't had to do any work on this projector yet...but it's good to hear from Nantawat to learn how serviceable the Eiki's are. For you .. the Eiki Elf seems to be a better choice.

[Martin Davey]

I've had 3 B&H's over the years. They are 'sophisticated' against an ELF and would have once gone with one every time...except they have, from my experience 2 big problems. 2 of mine suffered from the cracked worm gear as described above, but I also had on 2 machines a problem when the pinch rollers either side of the sound drum no longer 'pinch'. A fix is to manually push them together when the film is loaded but unfortunately I could still hear some 'wow' in the sound which annoyed me. The other 16mm machine I have owned since the late 1990s is an ELF. It is an 'unsophisticated brute' in comparison but easy to maintain. When you are sitting down to watch a film and looking at the screen it makes no difference between any make. So to summarise I would now say go with an ELF as the above posts say, rather than a B&H because you have a better chance of maintaining it.

[Maurice Leakey]

If a Bell & Howell has been properly serviced it should then last a good long time. A perfect worm and lubrication are most important, the two sound stabilisers need to be lubricated for them to maintain a good tension at the sound drum. The three sprockets and its triple claw ease the film though very well.
There is nothing radically wrong with an Elf (Eiki), although I don't like the double claw and its poor loop former which can sometimes cause film damage. The use of only two sprockets can often leave a poor lower loop especially if the film has a slight warp.

Maurice

[Mark Silvester]

Hi all

when I collected 16mm I had quite a few projectors - by far my favourites were my new worm gear B&Howell and my Bauer P7.

I had a few Elf/Eikis over the years and the claw always worried me...if a print wasn't in pristine condition..it could be a nightmare to project with one of those. I had some very collectible and expensive prints in those days and would only trust those with my B&H or Bauer.

Just my personal experience

Mark

[Dave Groves]

My Bell/Howell 1695 has been running public shows for over 20 years and has never let me down. I had new worm gear put in at the start so no problems there. If you like 'tinkering' then don't go for B&H, but if like me, you don't know a 'waltz from a tango' and rely on a knowledgeable somebody, the make becomes of lesser importance. Go for a three claw machine that will more happily deal with minor damage.

[Russ Green]

Hi thanks for the replys think ill hoid out for an elf or elmo at the right price

[Maurice Leakey]

Russ

I assume you live in the UK, if you do, I would suggest that you do not buy a 16mm Elmo as I believe nobody in this country is willing to do a service on such a make.

Stick to Bell & Howell or Elf/Eiki.

Maurice

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Nobody's gonna ask, but I'll post it anyway.
If you happened to come across this 16-series Elmo in working condition&reasonable price, go grab it.

AFAIK this early model is one of a few portable with circulated oil lubrication system - much like a full-size 35mm projector.
Other than keeping the oil level correct and general cleaning it'll probably outlast our lifetime - with no any other service work needed whatsoever.
The only drawback is that this beast uses incandescent tungsten lamp, not the halogen type. Gotta consider the cost&availability of spare lamps in mind too.
(Since I had re-purposed mine into simple DIY telecine setup, so that's not the problem for me anyway)

[Michael O’Regan]

I’ve always liked the look of that particular Elmo. They occasionally show up on eBay but I presumed they had been superseded in every respect by the 16CL. Does anybody else have experience with them, good or bad?

[Maurice Leakey]

Michael

I have an Elmo 16-F, similar to the one in the above picture, but it uses the normal ELC lamp, and has dispensed with the oil bath. It's manual thread. It works well but I dislike it as there is only the one position for the lamp switch.

I also have an Elmo 16-A. This is an auto-thread model. and has the oil-bath which uses light sewing machine oil. It looks like an overgrown GS-1200.

I must admit I have never really loved any of my Elmos.


Maurice

[Michael O’Regan]

Thanks, Maurice.
In relation to the lamp switch, do you mean that there is only one brightness level?

[Maurice Leakey]

Michael
Yes. That's correct.
I use a long life ELC, not as bright as a normal lamp, but should last a good long time. In my home I only use the lower setting on my projectors which have this facility.

Maurice

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

I’ve always liked the look of that particular Elmo. They occasionally show up on eBay but I presumed they had been superseded in every respect by the 16CL. Does anybody else have experience with them, good or bad?

Apart from lamp issue, I'd like to add that this early model is quite noisy. Probably due to its motor (DC brush type sort-of motor) and it all-metal intermittent mechanism. On later revision with Halogen lamp it was changed to a simpler AC induction motor & sealed intermittent ass'y (identical to that used in 16-CL). While whisper-quiet you'll lost that circulated oil lube system. So that depends on what's the priority. Robustness or quietness?

And it's damnnnnnn heavy. No wonder why mine came with broken handle. It's NOT recommended to carry it longer than 5-10 meters unless you don't care about your own back. 16-CL would be featherweight compared to this monster.

Speaking about comparing to 16-CL this one doesn't much like shrunken film since it would slip off the intermediate sprocket (the one right below the gate) and lost lower loop. 16-CL doesn't have this sprocket for the film too slip. But this one does not have any rubber rollers to turn goo as well.

In short - it is a very, very different kind of projector to 16-CL although they're both Elmo. Can't say which one is better - it depends on each intended use IMHO.