Elmo 16CL Wide Angle Lens Solution: Bolex Lenses w/ 3D Printed Adapter Sleeve

[Janice Glesser]

This is an UPDATE to a previously archived forum thread that is listed in the Technical Tips.



16mm > Elmo >
Adapter to use B&H lens as wide angle lens on ELMO 16MM projector

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bi...c;f=5;t=000910

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If you have a 16mm projector with a standard prime 50mm lens on your Elmo 16CL the projected picture will be half the size of your 8mm projector’s 25mm lens projecting from the same distance from the screen. If you can find an Elmo 25mm lens...great...but these are hard to find and pricey.

An alternative can be to find a lens from a 8mm projector that is sleeved to fit the 16CL. I bought a sleeved prime 25mm lens a few years ago on Ebay. There are no markings on the lens so I have no idea from where it originally came. It’s a very good lens and I got it for about half the price of an Elmo lens. The image fills my 58” x 44” screen perfectly when my projector is placed at 15ft. The image is obviously not as sharp or as bright as with a 50mm prime lens...but bright enough and the picture is sharp from edge to edge.






If you can’t find an original Elmo or a sleeved 25mm lens... here is a suggestion:

Julian Felipe Baquero who is an industrial designer (former member of this forum) created an inexpensive 3D printed sleeve a few years back for the Elmo 16CL. Julian originally designed the sleeve to fit on a Bell & Howell f/1.6 lens...but I have experimented using his adapter with other lenses and recently found much better results with Bolex lenses.

This week I used the ISCO - Gottingen Vario - Kiptagon 1:1.3/16.5-30 zoom lens and the Bolex Hi-Fi 1:1.3 f=20mm prime lens from my Bolex 18-5L and 18-5 projectors mounted in my Elmo 16CL projector. To my surprise...the picture was big, sharp, and bright to the corners… no vignetting. The image can fill the screen and more. I Just wrapped the barrel of the lenses with layer(s) of black electrical tape until the lens fit snuggly into the adapter.

NOTE: The Bolex Hi-Fi1:1.3 f = 12.5 - 25mm Zoom lens from the Bolex 18-5 Std. 8mm projector WILL NOT WORK… the aperture is too small.

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3D Elmo 16mm Adapter Sleeve
You can order the 3D printed adapter from the Shapeways website:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/QT...16mm-projector

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Bolex lens with the adapter is a viable wide angle lens solution for the Elmo 16CL

[Maurice Leakey]

Janice,
The standard lens for 16mm projectors is a 2" (50mm). The standard lens for standard/regular 8 projectors is a 1" (25mm).
As such, they will both project the same size picture at the same length of throw.

Maurice.

[Janice Glesser]

Maurice, I appreciate your comment if you are just trying to correct my optical terminology ... OK, but I think you are missing the point. No matter what you said and without confusing the issue... The Elmo 16CL standard 50mm lens throws a smaller picture than the Elmo 38mm... and the Elmo 38mm throws a smaller picture than the Elmo 25mm lens. This is a fact. My point for this post was to show that substituting specific lenses from 8mm projectors can increase the picture size if so desired. Not all lenses can be retrofitted to work in the Elmo 16CL. However I have presented the ones I have tested using the adapter sleeve.

I hope this information is helpful for those looking to increase the size of their picture and I look forward to comments from those who have tried it or have other solutions to offer.

[Janice Glesser]

I ordered a couple more adapters from Shapeways. This time I bought the white version...it was about $3 cheaper than the black.

[Julian Baquero]

Dear Janice, I am still here, not so often as before, but my love for cinema and our projectors is intact! Regards.

[Janice Glesser]

Oh Julian...So glad to hear from you!!!! As you can see I'm still using your wonderful adapter and with the Bolex lenses I'm seeing the best results so far. Glad you are still checking in once in awhile. We need talented members like yourself to keep this hobby going.

[Barry Webb]

Hi I have a Elmo 16mm SL and have the standard lens I would love to get a adapter to use a 8mm projector lens is there one available for the SL model.
I also have a Elmo HL 16mm machine but the lens size is bigger than the SL model any ideas.
Barry

[Janice Glesser]

Barry...If the SL lens is the same that is in the 16CL then the adapter I've mentioned should work.

[Alan Gouger]

Thank you Janice for the post and to Julian for a very nice product. I just placed my order

[Rob Koeling]

Hi Janice, thanks for this report, that is very useful to know.
I had a look at the Shapeways page, but I couldn't work out what the inner dimensions are of the adapter. Would you mind measuring that?
I have a few lenses that I would like to be able to use, but before ordering, make sure that I will be able to accommodate them in the sleeve.

Best,

- Rob

[Janice Glesser]

The Bolex zoom lens I show above is pretty much a perfect fit. I did place a small piece of electrical tape of one side to make the lens fit tightly in the adapter. With the electrical tape added the barrel size of the lens measures 28.00mm. Hence this would be the largest size lens barrel to fit in the adapter. Smaller size lenses will work...you'll just need to wrap the lens barrel with tape to increase the circumference and make sure the lens is centered in the adapter. Although this adapter material is very solid you can use a very course sandpaper or Dremel tool to increase the inner dimension or decrease the outer dimension if necessary.

I'm learning that depending on the material used for 3D printing that there can be a variance in size of the printed piece. Keep that in mind.

[Janice Glesser]

Here are 3 lenses I have tested with the adapter. the best quality is the Bolex lenses as I have mentioned above.

Bell & Howell 20mm-32mm f/1.5 (B&H Lumina Series Projectors)
Bolex Vario-Kiptagon 16.5mm-30mm 1:1.3 (Bolex 18-5 & 18-5L Projectors)
Bell & Howell 18mm-30mm f/1.6 (Various B&H Projectors)

[Jon Byler]

Janice Glesser This is very interesting! I ordered an elmo 38MM lens, and it helps, but projection size in the home is still too small. I made an adapter, but so far have had no luck with any super 8mm lenses. I got the 28mm f1.0 from a Kodak m100, and it cuts off the corners. Same with the bolex 14-25mm f1.3 hifi lenses from my 18-5L supers. Those bolex lenses have the larger diameter barrel. As you noted, the 20mm f1.3 bolex hifi with the smaller barrel diameter from the 18-5 and 18-5 super (non L version) will work. The 15mm vignettes.

I tried a bell and Howell 19-32mm f1.2 and it is no good.

the common denominator in those that won’t work is the rear lens element being relatively small in diameter. The bolex small barrel 20mm lens has a significantly larger diameter rear element than the others that I’ve tried.

I’ll have to see if I can find any of the other lenses that you used successfully and give them a shot. I’ve got a couple of other ideas, but need to try them out first.

[Jon Byler]

Janice,
The standard lens for 16mm projectors is a 2" (50mm). The standard lens for standard/regular 8 projectors is a 1" (25mm).
As such, they will both project the same size picture at the same length of throw.

Maurice.

The misunderstanding here seems to be that Maurice is talking about using the 25mm on an 8mm projector and Janice is talking about using the lens from an 8mm projector on 16mm projector, whereby it does create twice the picture of the 50mm lens for a given projection distance.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Janice Glesser This is very interesting! I ordered an elmo 38MM lens, and it helps, but projection size in the home is still too small. I made an adapter, but so far have had no luck with any super 8mm lenses. I got the 28mm f1.0 from a Kodak m100, and it cuts off the corners. Same with the bolex 14-25mm f1.3 hifi lenses from my 18-5L supers. Those bolex lenses have the larger diameter barrel. As you noted, the 20mm f1.3 bolex hifi with the smaller barrel diameter from the 18-5 and 18-5 super (non L version) will work. The 15mm vignettes.

I tried a bell and Howell 19-32mm f1.2 and it is no good.

the common denominator in those that won’t work is the rear lens element being relatively small in diameter. The bolex small barrel 20mm lens has a significantly larger diameter rear element than the others that I’ve tried.

I’ll have to see if I can find any of the other lenses that you used successfully and give them a shot. I’ve got a couple of other ideas, but need to try them out first.

Another possible candidate is an inexpensive 25mm CCTV c-mount lens. This seems already available everywhere, and cheap enough to be considered "disposable". Tried that with Eiki projector of my fellow collector and it works quite acceptable. I once had a topic regarding this early this year. The full detail is here.

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...eiki-projector