I Just Got In A Load Of 16mm Vinegar Films

[John Lombardo]

I took these in because they were headed for the garbage and I figured I would have more junk to practice my amature cleaning and restoration stuff on. I was told they were a bunch of junky news reels, and most of them were Castle 400 ft World Parades and News Parades. but some of the other titles really surprised me.

These did not have Castle Films or any film company on the leader:

1917 - Chaplin - Easy Street - 2 reels 400 ft each
1922 - The Sleuth - 1 reel 400 ft
1917 - The Trouble Hunter - 2 reels 400 ft each
1922 - Chaplin - Pay Day - 2 reels 400 ft each
1919 - Snub Pollard - All At Sea - 1 reel 400 ft
1913 - Mack Sennet - Muddled In Mud - 1 reel 400 ft
1909 - Shadows Of Doubt - D.W. Griffith & Mary Pickford - 1 reel 400 ft
unknown year - Our Gang Comedy - 1 reel 300 ft

These may all be from Castle Films as well but I have no way of knowing because there is no list of there catalog anywhere to check except the book that guy wrote lol.

They all smell of vinegar but only 19 of the 54 films showed any visible damage and most of that was some curling on the first few loops of the reel. the rest of the film are in beautiful shape.

I got all the cleaning supplies ready except the film renew. I think my pop might have thought it was a bottle of used cooking oil and sent it to the mechanic for his heater/burner LOL

Im sure i'll have a lot of problems that I will be needing advice on so I would appreiciate some help as I go along.

Thanks in advance lol.

[Mark Silvester]

Hi,

I remember many years ago buying a lot of original Twilight Zone episodes - B/W frpm the early seasons. Many had vinegar to some degree and some where almost solidified. I'm sure I bought them from Australia - a lot of stuff I bought 16mm wise had degrees of vinegar from Oz.

I threw a lot of them out - but did salvage the reels. ( after thorough cleaning)

Others I kept and cleaned up as best I could - they projected O.K. and I actually sold them to an individual who was aware of the vinegar as I think they were for conversion to video.

So I would advise to be careful and assess wisely - I know some on here would say rehouse in a separate building and handle via haz suits and masks. Lol.

But I would advise just keep seperately from other non-vinegar prints.

[Maurice Leakey]

John
As far as I know, Castle did not distribute 16mm silent films.
Of course, they did issue mute copies of most of their sound releases. These had appropriate running titles to supplant the sound commentary.

[Dominique De Bast]

This may be of some interest for those who like Castle Films : FEATURED ARTICLE (monstersfromthevault.com)

[John Lombardo]

Hi,

I remember many years ago buying a lot of original Twilight Zone episodes - B/W frpm the early seasons. Many had vinegar to some degree and some where almost solidified. I'm sure I bought them from Australia - a lot of stuff I bought 16mm wise had degrees of vinegar from Oz.

I threw a lot of them out - but did salvage the reels. ( after thorough cleaning)

Others I kept and cleaned up as best I could - they projected O.K. and I actually sold them to an individual who was aware of the vinegar as I think they were for conversion to video.

So I would advise to be careful and assess wisely - I know some on here would say rehouse in a separate building and handle via haz suits and masks. Lol.

But I would advise just keep seperately from other non-vinegar prints.

Thanks for the advice. At this stage of the game, if I were to break out the projector for viewing anything these days I would convert what I got to digital and run off a new print if I could afford to rather than take a chance of damaging or wearing out the old one more than it already is. Thats a big reason why I take all prints that come my way no matter what they are or what the condition lol. Im the last in my family that will even touch a projector. They all settled long ago for converting family films to dvd via camcorder pointed to the screen. bleah lol.

clean, digitize, freeze. best i can do.

[John Lombardo]

John
As far as I know, Castle did not distribute 16mm silent films.
Of course, they did issue mute copies of most of their sound releases. These had appropriate running titles to supplant the sound commentary.

This just brought back a horrible memory LOL.

I was about 10 years old and i was treated to a silent, one tiny 200 foot reel (I think), chopped up super 8 version of Beneath The Planet Of The Apes.

Not sure if it was from Castle but it scarred me for life LOL.

[John Lombardo]

This may be of some interest for those who like Castle Films : FEATURED ARTICLE (monstersfromthevault.com)

Thanks great link

[Douglas Meltzer]

John,

Beneath the Planet of the Apes was from Ken Films. I hope the scars have healed!

[John Lombardo]

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

lol

[John Lombardo]

Aside from the vinegar smell these films all fall into 3 main catagories:

1 - the first few revolutions have light to moderate curl but the rest of the reel looks ok. (49 out of 54)

2 - the films look dried and yellowed so i didn't want to unwind them in case they were stuck together or too brittle. (4 out of 54)

3 - heavy curl on the fires few revolutions and star shaped confiuration on the rest of the reel. (2 out f 54)

4 - mold on the film. (1 out of 54)

I know that they would all benefit from a good soaking in a solution such as Filmrenew, but I am wondering if some of them would also benefit from a camphor treament and if so, before or after the soaking? I have read many posts on both treatments but haven't come across any that deal with both on the same film.

Thanks

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

At the very least, keep all of those VS attacked in open air to let them "breathe". That would buy you some time.
Under no circumstance NEVER,EVER keep them in airtight container, period.

All of these prints were in perfectly fine condition when I put them in cans just about 10 years ago - absolutely NOTHING left by now. The harsh atmosphere here would only make it even worse.

[Jon Byler]

Thanks for the advice. At this stage of the game, if I were to break out the projector for viewing anything these days I would convert what I got to digital and run off a new print if I could afford to rather than take a chance of damaging or wearing out the old one more than it already is. Thats a big reason why I take all prints that come my way no matter what they are or what the condition lol. Im the last in my family that will even touch a projector. They all settled long ago for converting family films to dvd via camcorder pointed to the screen. bleah lol.

clean, digitize, freeze. best i can do.

What are you using to digitize?

[John Lombardo]

At the very least, keep all of those VS attacked in open air to let them "breathe". That would buy you some time.
Under no circumstance NEVER,EVER keep them in airtight container, period.

All of these prints were in perfectly fine condition when I put them in cans just about 10 years ago - absolutely NOTHING left by now. The harsh atmosphere here would only make it even worse.

wow that is something else...

I think i'm going to take the advice i read on this and other forums and tranfer the reels to cardboard boxes with dessicant packets after soaking and cleaning.

[John Lombardo]

What are you using to digitize?

I don't have a setup yet but I plan to but together a basic Raspberry Pi with 12.3 mp Pi camera and servo motor winders. I am looking at about 10 different designs right now and will probably make something that combines the best elements of all of them.

[Jon Byler]

I don't have a setup yet but I plan to but together a basic Raspberry Pi with 12.3 mp Pi camera and servo motor winders. I am looking at about 10 different designs right now and will probably make something that combines the best elements of all of them.

I've been looking at similar. I'll be interested to see what you come up with!