ELMO 16-AA Film flexing in gate

[Bren Jacques]

Hi everyone

I've recently picked up a very nice example of an ELMO 16-AA 16MM Sound Projector. I've been experiencing some flexing of film when it's travelling through the gate and this results in the picture blurring toward the edges of the frame. I've noticed this mostly with only one reel of a 3 part film I have and this reel isn't original to the set either (different stocks and manufacture dates but the offending reel is very old 3M stock).

I've done a fair bit to try and correct this including giving the film gate springs a slight stretch to increase pressure, as well as a good clean throughout of course. I've also tried other films and almost all are otherwise okay with exception of a few other old prints although they are nowhere near as bad as the main offender.

I've so far just put it down to the projectors design and the fact that even the oldest 16mm films back when the 16-AA was released weren't as old as many are today. I've tried the worst offending film on my older 1950s Ampro projector and it plays fine with no flexing although the film gates are quite different in design and the Ampro won't allow for much flex whereas the ELMO by design will.

What are others thoughts on this? Is this to be expected of projectors such as the 16-AA when running old film stock?

[Kevin Faulkner]

It's many years since I personally had one of that era of Elmo 16mm projector and then I had an Ilford badged version. But then back in the day when I worked for Ilford Films the old films were not so old. Elmo have used the same type of gate layout through most of their machine ranges over the years and like most machines they have a fixed guide in the gate along with a sprung guide and it maybe that the sprung guide is putting a bit too much pressure on the edge of the film causing it to flex slightly in the gate with certain old film stocks. I wouldn't want to play with spring pressures if it's just one film that causing the problem. Increasing the film gate springs will put more pressure on the film and could potentially cause wear on both running edges of the film including the soundtrack area.
In most of the Elmo service manuals they give quite precise measurements for spring pressures in the gate area.
It might be that the 3M film stock is slightly over width. It has to be remembered that the film is slit down from very wide parent rolls so that worth bearing in mind too.
Yes I agree that some makes of machine may be better at handling different film stocks of different age etc due to the mechanics of the gate etc.

[Bren Jacques]

Thanks for your thoughts Kevin, I think most may draw the same conclusion that it's a result of both projector design and the age of these films. The gate pressure isn't excessive but I've made sure there was adequate pressure present. I believe a number of Elmo projectors have a problem with spring fatigue on the gates which is no surprise with the amount of years they have remained compressed. I can't think of much else that can be adjusted in order to solve this problem so I'll happily leave it as it is and run any problem films on my Ampro.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

The lateral guide in most if not all Elmo 16mm projector's film gate is of 4-point support, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom. It's not impossible for certain films to wander out of position (warped films, bad splice, etc.) thus the issue. Other projectors such as Eiki uses long straight guide running the entire film gate length. Therefore less chance for the film to "derail" and causing the issue.

Overall build quality is noticeably superior than Eiki however. For me this seems to even out some small issues like this.

[Erkan Umut]

Guys,

ELMO has been made some modifications in the gate area after the AA model, such as lateral spring design. There were known issues already.

Pressures should be within the ELMO standards:

for Pressure plate spring at 100-120g (check whether pressure plate presses towards the gate evenly) Position of the pressure plate is important.

for Film side pressure at 40-50g (check whether it moves or not) Do not exceed 55g!

Hope this helps for now.