B&H Filmosound 636 power not working

[Clark Teddles]

Hi, Hope you're all well.

I've recently gotten a Bell and Howell 636 16mm projector and I have the cord which I bought off ebay and seemed to be working just fine. It was running for days and now it's not turning on. I feel it is not the power cord as it is New Old stock.

I understand that "not turning on" is a very broad statement, and can be pretty much any component that is causing this problem, but I found this thread on the old 8mm forum which gave me hope that I may actually be able to get it back and running. Link to the thread below:

8mm Forum: Bell & Howell 16MM Projector No power (film-tech.com)

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Kindest regards,
Clark

[Ken Finch]

I had one of these. It was one of the models built under licence in the u k. It was one of the last models of the 600 series. I do not think it is the same as the model you quoted. The 636 is a 110 volt model and was supplied with an external transformer. Is the power cord you have the one which plugs into the transformer on one end and the jones plug connection on the other end? If so , I would suggest you first check that the cord itself is o k. One of the wires connecting the socket pins may need re soldering. Failing that there may be a fuse somewhere on the projector that needs re placing.presumably you have checked that the one on the plug to your mains supply is o k. I am not familiar with what these are like in Australia but from memory the are different to the 13 amp ones here. Another possibility is the switch on the projector itself may be faulty. Hope this helps. Ken Finch.

[Lindsay Morris]

The 636 was a 230V model as released in Australia. It used the similar Y type power cord as used for the 110V transformer series machines.
The cord splits the AC mains into two sources, one to the projector itself to power the motor and the lamp and the other smaller sized Jones plug that feeds the amplifier which in turn on the projector lights the Exciter lamp for the sound.

If the motor does not turn or or the lamp (which can ONLY be switched on when the Motor switch is ON) then I would suggest that you have a problem with the plug that goes into the power point.

Do you have access to a multimeter that can read OHMS?? as you need to check the wiring from the mains plug to each of the Jones plugs that go into the projector.
Does the Exciter light come on when you switch the SOUND switch ON...it takes a second or so to come up once the valves in the amp warm up?
There is a switch marked Sound and Silent and that needs to be in the SOUND position and the Amplifier switch needs to be UP for ON.

You said that it was all working OK and now has suddenly stopped. is that correct??

I no longer have a 636 but a mate has a couple of earlier B& H machines which I can have a look at and refresh my memory of the machine functions.

Another indicator that you DO have power to the thing is the Threading light which is that round knob looking thing at the front of the lamp body??? you pull that out and the globe in there illuminates the machine sufficient to be able to thread it in a darkened room without having to put lights on. It works of course only if the lamp is not missing or blown.

Just be aware that the amplifier is transformerless as that model was an AC/DC beast so if you get the amp out onto a bench to work on it beware as its innards are at 230V potential and you can get a nasty shock from it.

[Clark Teddles]

I believe you're both 100% correct about the power cord being the problem. Last night, I did a thorough check of the projector. I replaced both the fuses, inspected the cord (as I also thought that it might be the cord) and after adjusting a few components in the cord, the projector was running for a split second, then stopped again. So I believe it has to be something to do with the cord. I never second-guessed the cord being faulty as I had purchased it off ebay as new-old stock, it was spotless.

The threading light was already taken out when I purchased it. As for the exciter, it does not turn on but I have a feeling that the power cord simply hasn't been assembled correctly and is not transmitting power to the amplifier/sound components.

As for the 240v shocks.... that's happened to me twice while I've been trying to get this projector back up and running for about 8 months. One of which being last night at 1am and having to go to the side of the house to flip the switch in the electrical box back on.

after the time and money spent on this projector, I'm unsure to continue working on it. Although your answers have given me great hope that I just had a bad power cord and in fact the projector could be in complete working order.

will try acquire another power cord and give that a try.

Thank you.

[Lindsay Morris]

Clark,

Is that Y lead a Rubber covered cord or a PVC covered on and are the plugs that go into the projector MOULDED ones or ones that have a small screw holding the cover to each in place.??
If the covers are removable then you are able to CAREFULLY check the continuity of all 3 wires that go to each of the machine plugs.

You any idea as to where you got the shock from as it sorta sounds like the cord might well be wired up incorrectly??

[Clark Teddles]

Hi,

I have a good feeling that the wires may have been soldered in the incorrect spots, although I could be wrong.

I removed the cover and took a picture of the wire formation.

I received the shock from the input socket while the power cord was plugged in (stupid of me, I know). But I believe the wires are incorrectly soldered on. I may know someone who can re position them.

Picture linked below:

[Brian Fretwell]

I'm only going by the convention of British plugs and the fact that the Earth is normally the largest connector, but to me it seems as if the brown and yellow/green have been reversed. If so it would be VERY damgerous and make any metal part "live", But would blow a RCD. It might not matter if the same has been done the other end though. Have you checked there as well.

[Lindsay Morris]

Clark,

I do not have a plug in front of me to check the pin outs BUT before we go any further what exactly were you touching when you got a shock??

If you have someone who is reasonably comfortable and competent around working on 230v connections in the abscence of a service manual that clearly shows the pin allocations of the projector itself you need to identify what wire goes where on EACH of this two plugs and very importantly to ensure that the Ground wire does in fact get to the FRAME of both the projector AND the amplifier.
Once you identify those connections and ensure that is how the plugs are wired finding the AC wires to feed the two sections is dead easy with an Ohmeter.

It would take me all of 5 minutes to sort out what goes where...its not rocket science but just careful sleuthing and making the necessary changes if required to that lead you purchased.
You are 100% lucky that you scored one that has openable plugs as I have lost count of the number of the rubber covered Y leads that have had open circuit wiring and thus Non repairable and a bin job.

[Clark Teddles]

Lindsay,
I've looked into the powerpoint and since I am unsure of which wires are supposed to be connected to which "prong" I've attached a few images below.

If you are aware of the correct wire configuration, perhaps you could use the image I sent earlier in this thread along with the pictures below?

Regards,
Clark

[Clark Teddles]

Brian,

I'm located in Australia and I'm using a "power cord region adapter". This could be causing some problems, but I don't believe it would cause power to go to the wrong prongs, this would be the fault of the wires not being configured correctly.

I picked this projector up at an antique store about 9 months ago. When the projector used to run, it didn't seem the amplifier was working at all, so I'm hoping by solving this power cord problem, it may turn out the amplifier also indeed works along with the exciter lamp.

Once I get confirmation that the wires are indeed in the incorrect configuration, I will look for a person who can swap them in a safe manner (as opposed to my shocking techniques).

Regards,
Clark

[Ken Finch]

Your mains plug wiring seems to be correct, so it would suggest the problem may be at the point where the cable is split or the jones plugs at the projector end. All the Y leads, as they were called, that I have ever seen were moulded at the point where they divided but you can still check them with a multi meter. The only faulty leads that I have ever come across were those where the rubber had perished but that would not appear to be the problem in your case if it is a genuine Nell and Howell cable.

[Ken Finch]

It has just occurred to me that if you do not have a test meter, you can test the lead connections by making up a continuity tester with a torch battery and bulb and some wire.

[Lindsay Morris]

Clark,


Are you competent in being able to change that UK lug to a Aussie 3 Pin plug OR maybe you have a mate who is confident around mains extension cables etc to do it for you.

How did you get a shock from the projector????
I ask because IF whomever has supplied that Y lead may have gotten the Active wire onto the Earth pin on the plug or plugs that go into the projector which most likely is why the thing will not run and also why you got a shock from it...the frame of the projector I am assuming.

Many of the old Rubber covered Y leads I have come across that are faulty are because the rubber covering has broken down possibly due to the heat in Australia and particular the leads used on 110V machines where the people keep using them despite the rubber coming away from the lead and think that they are still safe even though all that is left on the wires is bits of rubber and the cotton cover.
They flex a lot and the wires break away from the rear of the plugs and are simply not repairable and should not be used at all.