Elmo 16AL projector - Auto Loading Issue

[Tom Schulte]

I've recently acquired an Elmo 16AL in quite a good condition, apart from the infamous rollers and of course the auto-loading.

The projector seems mostly functional: forward and reverse works ok, lamp is nice and bright, which leads me to think that the auto loading issue is not related to the motor.

The AL lever does not engage and stay in it's lowered position. Although it does 'click', which is supposed to begin the auto loading feature, it does nothing. (Example of a working AL system at the bottom of page with Thai(?) text).

I'm not much of an electrician, but I think the issue is something to do with the switch (below/covered by the level as pictured) or with the wires.
I've followed the wires and they seem to be ok, I don't think any parts are missing (I hope)

What else can I do? I've got a multimeter but not sure if it'll help, and if it will, where exactly to measure at what setting.

Videos attached.

[Maurice Leakey]

I seem to remember, that when working correctly, the auto load system resets to projection mode when the film reaches the rear of projector ready to affix to the take-up spool. Perhaps there is a problem at the other end.

[Joe Taffis]

Tom, I sent you a PM...

[Maurice Leakey]

As the Elmo 16-AL is quite a rare projector, perhaps Joe could have shared his thoughts with all of us.

[Tom Schulte]

Hi Maurice,

I think you’re correct.
As per manual and video I posted, the film is supposed to be threaded through to the take up spool by pressing and engaging the auto-load lever. It then automatically stops, so that the operator can insert the start of film into the take up spool, and once completed, projection can start.

i just check the main switch under the auto-load lever. There is continuity so the switch seems to be ok. It’s strange...

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

If my memory is correct its autoload lever is soleniod-operated. That microswitch would activate the solenoid, pulling the lever down and run the motor. After a certain delay the solenoid then unlatch itself, finishing its autoload function.
(Elmo ST-1200 series seems to have similar system I think.)

So I'm afraid it's time to open its rear cover to have a deeper look inside. Don't know how well it's gonna end.

BTW the last clip is indeed in Thai.

[Tom Schulte]

Hi Nantawat,

Yes, just looked into the panel which has the switch, lower film guide etc.
There is solenoid there, and it seems to look good.
Solenoid does not move when switch is pressed, but it can be moved via fingers and it's not sticky or anything. Still no function with Auto-Loading however.

I've looked around in the back. Followed the wires etc but I could not find any problems that stood out.
Where do I test or look?

Some images of back compartment area:

[Paul Browning]

Does the green guide stay down when its not plugged into the mains ?, if so then its similar if not the same as the gs 1200, and that is just a mechanical latch spring loaded, and then unlatched by a solenoid behind it, which is actuated by the rear switch.

[Maurice Leakey]

It must be slightly different from the GS-1200 for loading as the 16-AL starts to run as soon as the green threading button is pressed down. The start of the GS-1200 is in two stages. 1) Depress green auto thread lever. 2) Press the Forward FWD button to start motor.

[Lee Mannering]

Typical Elmo hiding electronic switches

Tom have a look back at the old forum about micro switches on the gs1200 it will probably give you a good lead. On the gs1200 the threading release is hidden behind near the top exit of the green film guide

[Tom Schulte]

Does the green guide stay down when its not plugged into the mains ?, if so then its similar if not the same as the gs 1200, and that is just a mechanical latch spring loaded, and then unlatched by a solenoid behind it, which is actuated by the rear switch.

Hi Paul, the green guide does not stay down when not plugged into mains. I have found the latch and solenoid that is right next to it. Sort of disassembled it and put it back together but no luck. There is also no switch that is connected directly to the solenoid. The wires from the solenoid (& latch) go into the brown board on the picture i posted earlier.

Correct Maurice, the 16AL is to start as soon as the lever is pressed down.

Hi Lee, I have looked in the old forum and found a post where although the switches in the GS1200 were showing to have continuity, there were problems with the threading. He replaced the switches and that did it, so I think I'll give that a go first before undertaking any further circuit/electrical repairs (I'm clueless when it comes to circuits and boards).
Because I do see there is a switch which works ok behind the switch which has a problem. The ok switch when pressed manually without the projector plugged in slightly moves a roller down in the threading area as per video. However, the ok switch or the lower roller does not move when plugged in when the front switch is pressed via lever or manually.
Perhaps the projector just needs some switches replaced.

The 2nd video shows another switch which is connected to a solenoid. It's located near the film exit/take-up area, maybe this one needs replacing too.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

First I wasn't sure if the solenoid is used to ACTIVATE the loading lever (so self-latching), or to DEACTIVATE the lever (mech. latch). But from your description it's quite evident that it is the first case. I assume a so-called master control board would control all of its operation. The sequence would be.

- Pressing down the lever, closing the microswitch. The main motor on & solenoid activates latching the lever - ready to load.
- After a preset amount of time the loading sequence ends, main motor & solenoid off - unlatching the lever. The projector is now ready for normal projection.

I'm afraid that the root cause may resides deep in that master board. Not 100% certain but very likely. Hope it would later turns out to be something as simple as loose connection somewhere else.

(Not a film-related but...)
I just lost a jewel item in my collection, a top-of-the-line Panasonic HS-1000 SVHS vcr. After some light use and being put in storage for a while, it just died of for no apparent reason (powers up, the transport moves, but no video output at all ). Some electronics seems doesn't like being kept in storage for a long period of time.

[Tom Schulte]

First I wasn't sure if the solenoid is used to ACTIVATE the loading lever (so self-latching), or to DEACTIVATE the lever (mech. latch). But from your description it's quite evident that it is the first case. I assume a so-called master control board would control all of its operation. The sequence would be.

- Pressing down the lever, closing the microswitch. The main motor on & solenoid activates latching the lever - ready to load.
- After a preset amount of time the loading sequence ends, main motor & solenoid off - unlatching the lever. The projector is now ready for normal projection.

I'm afraid that the root cause may resides deep in that master board. Not 100% certain but very likely. Hope it would later turns out to be something as simple as loose connection somewhere else.

(Not a film-related but...)
I just lost a jewel item in my collection, a top-of-the-line Panasonic HS-1000 SVHS vcr. After some light use and being put in storage for a while, it just died of for no apparent reason (powers up, the transport moves, but no video output at all ). Some electronics seems doesn't like being kept in storage for a long period of time.

Yes I think how you described it is correct.

I hope it's not the master board, then I really would have no idea what to do.
I'll see what the switch replacement does...

[Aaron Bates]

Please let us know what came of this. I have a 16-AL that has the exact same problem. It’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t work but I would love to figure it out.