Looking For Super 8 Sound Recorder (Full Coat Recorder)

[Noah Henderson]

Hi everyone!

Over the last few years I've been trying to build a catalog of Super 8 related videos on youtube to help people with no understanding of this format begin to explore it. Some of that has led me to diving more into the history of the format, older shooting techniques and gear for Super 8 and I've been on the lookout for a Super 8 Full Coat Recorder from the 70's. They definitely aren't the easiest to find!

I'd be interested to know if anyone out there has a functioning one and what that might be worth? I've talked to Phil at Pro8 himself and he's just not sure about having a functioning one so I thought I'd reach out the Super 8 community here. I have a Nikon R10 that has the port for the recorder as well so I'd be in need of that cable as well.

[Tony Pitts]

Hi Noah.

The last time i used the Super 8 Full Coat Recorder was around 1978 ishhhh! Now to find a working one is going to be very rare. As to find any super 8mm full coat magentic tape might be even rare-er !!

A good analysis in Super 8mm Double System sound recording was published by American Cinematographer

https://www.dtvgroup.com/Super8Sound...atographer.pdf

best tony

[Noah Henderson]

Definitely going to be a tough thing to track down, Tony! That American Cinematographer issue is something I've looked through several times before, too bad so much of that equipment has disappeared over time. Believe it or not I've got about 14 reels of Super 8 full coat (something like 1500ft), but no recorder!

[Zachary Greenberg]

A professional super 8 fullcoat recorder has been rare as hen's teeth for many years. When I read the original post, I thought (as a reel to reel tape hobbyist) perhaps the best option in lieu of an 'official' fullcoat machine would be a modified 1/4 inch magnetic tape reel-to-reel recorder.
Indeed, some quick googling revealed that even decades ago a group of people modified a basic Sony reel to reel tape recorder to accept super 8 fullcoat. Check out the link below for more details.

https://issuu.com/filmmaker8.com/doc..._manual_2/6?ff

Modifying the reel to reel machine electronics to use super 8 fullcoat instead of 1/4 inch magnetic tape doesn't seem too difficult (in theory) Hope this helps!

[Tony Pitts]

Yes this is correct. In the uk there was a few clever people who were modifying tape recorders to record super 8mm full coat mag. From what I remember the 1/4 inch tape recorder-Ferrograph- was one of them. I think I either actually ownea one or I rented it for a job a was filming at the time. The Ferrograph was chosen because it was easier to mod. The guides were taken off and lathed wider to 8mm, the head cover was filed open wider. The Ferrograph ran at (linear tape speed) 3-3/4 inches per sec. The motor was them machined to have the pulleys made bigger so it then ran at 4 inches per second (film sound speed 24FPS).

Now once all this is up and running then you can recoded on the mag anything you like, to then be included in your track laying for your movie.

This setup meant the mag recorder ran WILD.

The Ferrograph was not a resolving recorder. Let me explain.

During film shooting the camera (super 8) had a connector that fired a pulse every time the camera shot a frame of film. This pulse was then recorded, in my case, to the second track of a portable battery operated audio cassette recorder. This tape cassette recorder was a modified recorder. Track one was the live audio coming from the mic, track two was recording the pulses from the camera.

Time to now transfer the cassette live audio to the Full coat film. Track one from the cassette was plugged up to the audio inputs to the Ferrograph. Track two from the cassette which has the recored camera speed (in pulses) would then be amplified and wired to an Red LED diode. In playback mode as the cassette tape played back the LED would flash once for every frame. This Led was then positioned on the Ferrograph just behind the full coat and when all was running the led would strobe through the sprockets holes. If the holes were static then it meant the full coat recorder was in sync with the camera. If the strobe was running, it wasn’t. The cassette player had its DC motor modified to be speed controllable. So basically this whole thing was a manual process very carefully adjusting the speed of the playback to make the strobe static. It all worked. Sync sound.

Well that was the poor mans way of getting sync sound in the late 70’s.

[Gary Sayers]

Some ads from an issue of 'Film Making' May 1978.

A couple of fullcoat recorders on one ad that are a modified Sony TC 800 B and a modified Uher 4000. There's a different fullcoat recorder by Cinema Workshop on the other ad (there's also a modded Minette editor that emmulates the old 16mm 4 or 5 gang picsync but with super 8).

No indication of what price they were at the time.

[Brian Fretwell]

I think the other (Mains) recorder is a Sony TC377. We used to have one at the amateur theatre I joined in 1977, it was later replaced by a TC399 which didn't have the wedge shape. I seem to remember that you could swap it round in the case so that when laying flat the controls were at the narrower end, very well designed for use both ways.

[Lee Mannering]

I've gradually built up nice professional Super 8 dubbing facilities for my business linked into the video side of things over the years. My old Revox B77 is linked to the much respected Cresta unit and works well also using digital as well of course. In the 70's I got a ex BBC Ferrograph for similar purposes which was very reliable.
I'll have some of the Stepmag kit in the loft being a film maker, seem to remember the tape deck was Sony modified but quite a long time ago now.
Cresta equipment was reliable, versatile and affordable with tech help available over the phone.

[Tom Photiou]

Is there actually any one around who does sound re recording as a paying service?
if like me, you dont have the equipment to re record your stuck.

[Lee Mannering]

Surprised Tom you are not tooled up 😮 I've been helping film makers for well over 40 years now with mono/stereo multi track services also having a pro voice over artist and I know several amateur enthusiasts are offering help with Stereo dubbing in the UK alone for those in need which can only fill the gap.
The Revox B77 MkII matches up nicely when pulsed thru the Cresta all suitable analogue of course but the knowledge to use it all will be pretty much forgotten today in the UK which is a tragic shame.
And lets not forget loved DCR Films who used a similar setup to record all its releases FROM A SHED! My visit back then to the Isle of Wight was very memorable.....but that is another story and I must dig out my S8 filming from back in el day of the visit.

[Tony Pitts]

Small note. Found this box which had a roll of super8mm magnectic fully coat in it. Pyral made full coat for 35/16/S8mm for ages. This box was from Cinerma Workshop when they were doing audio transfers around the 80's.

[Kim Trampus]

I remember those days! https://vimeo.com/4738864