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**Brian Harrington** · September 19, 2024, 10:29 AM

I did virtually nothing, yet it started running again, and very well. I ran it for about an hour. Still haven't tried it with film yet.

What I did do was remove the back cover -- of course -- and removed a metal plate that is there to hold some wires out of the way, and then I started turning the inching knob -- and it was suddenly turning much more freely. Then I removed a small metal plate that covers one of the brass bearings -- that the rod/axle goes thru -- and the brass bearing spun very freely on the rod. So I quickly put everything back together. It makes no sense to me why the night before it stopped running. The first metal plate that I removed was not in any way touching the bearing. The wires were not rubbing against anything before I removed the plate. If any of those things were out of whack, it wouldn't have run the night before so well before it stopped. And to be clear -- by stopped I mean the motor was still running, but it was not able to turn the rubber discs. And again, last night I did not re-clean or re-condition the rubber discs. Nor did I re-adjust the front knob that tilts the motor towards one of the discs. And the night before, I did press on the motor with my hand against the disc to see if it was getting enough pressure. No amount of pressure would get it to turn. Yet it ran an hour last night wih no letup -- much longer than the previous night.

The film counter made it easy to get a reading on the speed. 1 digit == 18 frames. It is running at 25 fps, which is a bit fast. And yes, I have the frequency switch set to 60hz, not 50hz. It it sounds too fast under load, I can always move the switch down very slightly.

A nice added feature is the front panel lights up next to 18 fps and 24 fps indicators, so even though the switch is hidden by the front cover, you can see what speed it is set to. The bad thing is that if you move the switch just a hair down from the highest setting, it shows 18 fps.

In the current year 2024, who trusts any projector to auto-thread properly -- meaning who threads without the front cover off anyway. With any of my projectors, if I thread 10 times in a row with the cover off, it will be flawless. I then get over-confident, and the 11th time I thread with the cover still on -- then I hear the film jamming. Every time -- no matter what machine I use!!!

You'll never guess what I consider to be the best auto-threader? The Chinon 7500 -- the only Chinon I've tried. You can't even hear the film going thru the machine during threading. The first time I used it, I was puzzled -- then I saw the film coming out the rear chute and onto the take-up reel! And I had read that Chinons had a penchant for chewing up film during threading!

The worst auto-threader -- the Elmo ST-1200HD. Gotta keep the cover open for that one. Even when it threads fine, it will often lose the loops right away. As open as the film path is, it is a major PITA to manually thread, or to un-thread midway thru a film. To un-thread, I sometimes use a tweezer, or a piece of paper to slide under the sprockets, else it is nearly impossible to get the film out without twists and turns and possible damage to the film. I have 2 of these machines, and they both exhibit the auto-thread problem most of hte time.

And on any machine, I never trust the take-up reel to take-up the film properly. Even when it looks like it does, I stop the machine, make sure the film is secured properly, then keep my hand pressed down on the film on the reel as I re-start the projector and make sure the take-up reel makes one rotation with the film secured. I didn't do that properly with my Elmo recently (stupid me), and as I was watching the film, I kept hearing a light noise that was annoying. Turns out that the film end was sticking out the side of the take-up reel, even though the rest of the film was taking up properly. This resulted in a bend about 5 inches or so from the film end at the start of the reel. Very annoying. I manually un-threaded the film and started over, since I couldn't stand the sound of the flapping film end. And of course it was a 1200 foot reel I was showing -- so an hour was too much for me to stand with that noise!

With Eumigs, sometimes a mis-thread results in the film entering into the rotating shutter! What a noise that makes! If it make it thru the gate, it loves to jam before entering the sound head area. Of course, trimming the film properly with the supplied trimmer, and a pristine leader, is the best defense against this, but you'd be suprised how often it can happen even when everything is perfect. Happens on all my Eumigs. Not every time, but Six Sigma this is not! And yes the path is clean and un-obstructed. Sometimes it is just the film, and perhaps the end is not curved properly, or curved too much. The Elmos are more sensitive to the proper curve of the film-end than Eumigs, however.

......

I'd rank the sound Sankyos and Yamawa-made projectors higher than Eumigs for the sub-800 foot capacity range. They don't have an all-metal chasiss like the Eumigs, with both the front and back covers usually being plastic. The main part of the chassis, however, is usually metal on the untis I have. These projectors have good, old-fashioned belts that are easily available, so no dis-assembling the machine to replace motor mounts, or fine-tuning of the control knob to set the motor in proper position. Eumigs do have the reputation of having superior sound, even compared to the higher-end Elmos. but I've never done any detailed comparisons. The only minor issue I've had is some of my Yamawa-made projectors have low wattage sound output. I'm amazed at the brightness of the picture with Yamawa, even with the EFP and f1.3 lens.

The gate area of Sankyos and Yamawas are hard to clean, though. You need a thin brush, usually supplied with them when new, to clean the gate. With Eumigs, the gate and pressure plate is removable. Every time I remove it to clean, however, I feel I'm putting wear on it, which eventually could affect alignment with the claw, and potential focus issues. That being said, I've never had an issue.

A big advantage most Sankyos have is that they are easily converted to 800 foot capacity! The feed arm can hold it unmodified, and replacing the rear chute with a shorter one, courtesy of Van-eck, allows the take-up arm to hold one. I've done that with my Sankyo 702.

Some Sankyos, including the 702 and 800, take 150 watt EFR lamps. Only a few Eumigs above the 926 range have this.

It also should be noted that my view of Eumigs is based on the 800 series, or equivalent Bolex (and you can find some with a Bell and Howell or Bauer badge, as well.) The 900 Eumig series up to 926 should be avoided at all costs. Why? No front sprocket. Period. Unless you don't mind excessive film chatter and unstable image for all but the most lubricated films. Plus, the feed-reel is at the rear of the machine. If that isn't bass-ackwards, then I don't know what is!

I've never used the Eumigs >926, such as the often praised 938 and 940. I'd love to try one someday, but they rarely come up for sale in the U.S. Plus, if I buy another projector, my wife will kill me!

Getting back to the motor mounts on Eumigs, for the life of me I can't understand why they designed it this way -- and I'm not talking about the rubber discs. On the chassis, right behind the control knob, there is a cut-out where the plastic motor mount is inserted. Why wasn't the motor mount just carved into the chasis? Then at the back of the machine, the motor mounts sits in a small, removable piece of metal, Again, why not just have the motor mount be carved into this piece of metal? Who knows?

BTW, that rear piece of metal that houses the motor mount, and is attached to the fan cover, has a critical adjustment. It needs to be adjusted so that the rod of the motor that has the spinning ball is at a 90 degree angle to the bottom surface of the projector. Without having to use a protractor, I adjust it with the motor running, until I achieve the optimal angle to spin the rubber discs properly. Much has been written on aligning the motor dead-center between the discs when set at the stop position, but little has been written about this adjustment.

It should be pointed out that you need to be very careful working on the machine with the back-cover open and the machine plugged-in, else you could get a potentially deadly electric shock! Eumig workers had special plastic covers to place over potentially "live" areas of the machine, but short of that, I use rubber gloves and/or non-conductive "tools" (e.g. plastic or even wood) to tilt the motor into proper position while running. Good luck, and be careful!

**Paul Adsett** · September 19, 2024, 11:13 AM

Brian, one thing I would recommend is just running the SP8 for a few hours without film. This will soften up the surface of the rubber drive disc and you will get a much better grip between the motor ball drive and the disc. These projectors dont like being idle very long so if you are not using it regularly make sure you take it out every 3months or so and just run it without film for an hour.
The 938 is a superb performing machine. It has the 150w lamp and 800ft reel capacity. The sound quality is really excellent and the film projection is rock steady. Unfortunately the construction IMO is not as solid as the 800 series. The 900's all have some very flimsy plastic components which break with time. The sound head balance track also exhibits rapid wear and the Eumig made switches can cause problems.

**Brian Harrington** · September 19, 2024, 02:04 PM

Thanks Paul. I did run it for about an hour without film last night. And it is running faster than it should depending on the accuracy of the film counter. I may need to try counting sprocket rotations, which is my normal method.

What I don’t understand is how it was running so well, then stopped. After it runs awhile, everything should warm up and the lube should get in all the little grooves. It started by not running at all, then I cleaned and reconditioned the discs, then lubed everything, then it started to slowly get up to speed. Then it was finally fine, then decided to stop. And now it is running like a top again. Makes no sense. Only thing I can think of is maybe some grease gummed up a bearing as it was running, then overnight the oil worked its way in and loosened up the grease.

I’d also be remiss if I did not point out that you cannot unthread mid film.That is, unless you dis-assemble the sound head assembly, and cut a slit in the film inlet chute where you feed the film for threading.

I normally use all my projectors in rotation, depending upon need, e.g. reel capacity, sound or silent, and gauge. And sometimes an old b&w film is printed a bit dark so I then go for the Elmo and its 1.1 lens and 150 watt lamp.

**Shane C. Collins** · September 19, 2024, 06:39 PM

The 800 Series Eumigs are much cheaper built compared to the previous 700 Series, and the first Mark S and Mark S Super. My projector of choice is the Mark S 709. Eumig's first dual gauge sound machine. The 709 has semi auto-threading to the gate, and the rest is manual loading through the sound head, and to the take-up reel. This set-up allows one to completely remove film manually from the film gate, and film channel. The other nice feature of the 709, and other early machines is the twist-to-focus lenses. This is the best, and most accurate focusing system to date. The early machines also have a very robust, and nice sounding tube amplifier. Easy to work on and usually never needs much servicing other than some deoxit to the switches, etc. The 709 below is my personal machine. I bought it online a few years back, and I'm almost certain it was new in the box. When I went to do the usual Eumig restoration of the motor mounts, etc. I discovered the rubber discs had zero wear, and no signs of use. The 709 is probably the best dual gauge machine Eumig made! Ivan Watson, editor from Movie Maker magazine, was a big fan of the 709! He gave it great praise in the late 60's. I also fitted my unit with Eumigs earliest, and one their best F 1.0 zoom lenses. This lens is all metal, and very sharp images can be obtained on screen. This lens is the Suprovar, and you'll see that in one of the photos below! The early Eumigs also used a condenser lighting system that incorporated a FCR 100 watt bulb, and very bright. I'm also including a video I made last year, showing how to thread a 709. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-8TiL9V-w

**Brian Harrington** · September 19, 2024, 07:39 PM

I've read your old posts about that machine, Shane. They don't come up for sale very often, and if I didn't already have an 810D, I'd probably buy one eventually. Other than the different threading mechanism, what makes the 800 series cheaper in build? As I've been working on the Bolex, I realize again how tank-like they are -- even heftier than my 810D. They are closer to Elmos in that feeling of "professional machine", though in the end the Elmo wins out for me -- since that has the feel of a 16mm machine.

I do wish the single-gauge Eumigs in the 700/800 series didn't use the same compromises as the dual-8s, meaning the changeable gates/pressure pad. As I mentioned above, the Bolex SP 8 Special has those. The only real advantage of getting a dedicated Super 8 machine in the 700/800 range is the 2-pin claw.

The problem with the lens mechanism that is not twist-to-focus is usually wear on the focusing pin. I've compared the one on my Bolex to my 810D, and the latter one is visibly worn, so you get some wobble as you focus in and out. The Bolex pin looks like its had little use. The rubber discs also look like they've had little use as well. The machine in general looks like it wasn't stored well, as there are some rust marks on the outside of the chassis. I can tell from the gate and pressure pad that it did get some use, though.

Well, right before I was about to run film through it, I re-installed the bulb and discovered that the lamp remains on pre-heat mode when put in full "play" mode. It must be a switch issue that I need to troubleshoot further.

I didn't want to pursue that until I tested it with a film, to check the sound and speed/pitch. First issue I had was it jammed during threading. It made it all the way until about an inch before the rear sprocket, which was weird. As I said, I had cleaned the entire path, including that white film guide right before the rear sprocket, which snaps open and closed. So I just pulled it through manually rather than spending a lot of time troubleshooting the threading issue. I was anxious to see it run a film, even if I couldn't see the picture.

So, it sounded terrific -- speed seemed fine, pitch was fine. I let it run a few minutes, but the lower loop was extremely small. Using the loop former didn't fix it, but the films was running smoothly and quietly. For giggles, I held the back of the film box in front of the lens to check the picture, however dim. I couldn't make out anything clear with focusing. Then I realized it was zipping by without the claw engaging the film! No wonder it was so quiet, and that's why the threading stopped before completing! I was doing this with the front cover off, and I noticed that the shutter was moving back and forth occassionally. So someone must have loosened a screw in the past and never re-tightened it. I had previously checked claw penetration, and it looked fine, but something must have gotten it out of whack, obviously because of a loose screw.

So I took the back cover off, and pushed the shutter assembly forward, which fixed the penetration problem momentarily, but of course it slid back. (I did this all with the machine off, obviously.)

I identified 2 screws right behond the shutter on the axle, near where it connects to the nylon tube. But get this -- and I'm really frustrated about it -- I can't get the screws to budge! I've tried different sized screwdrivers, even using a wrench on the handles to generate more torque, but no dice. That has usually worked for me in the past. I tried tapping on the screwdriver with a wrench, which often helps loosen a tight screw, but not this time. I put a drop of oil on the screw, let it sit for a few minutes to hopefully let it seep down, but still no luck. The thing is, unlike other machines which have grub screws for use with Allen wrenches, these are flat heads with fairly shallow slots. At least with the Allen wrenches they get deep enough to get a good grip on the screws, and you get the necessary torque from the L-shaped design. But not on the Eumig/Bolex!

I do have screw extractors, but not small enough for these. I just used it a few days ago to remove that really thick screw that fastens the fan cover to the chassis, but in the end you've ruined the screw. I scavenged another one from one of my parts machines where the screw came out easily. I thought that was the last of unremoveable screws for awhile, but no luck!

The screws have been mucked with before, since the gray factory paint was marked up. Maybe a prior owner just gave up as he somehow was modifying it for some reason, including needing the light to stay dim, but it is too dim even for telecine, and there was already a working EFP bulb in it.

I'm a glutton for punishment -- I didn't need another projector, as I have many that work fine. Now I'm banging my head against the wall with this Eumig/Bolex -- all because I can't get a screw out! What bad luck! I thought the only problem I'd have was getting it to run at the proper speed. It's usually smooth sailing after that. But I've only bought used Eumigs in the past for parts to support my 810D, of which I'm the original owner, so I've never mucked with it unnecessarily -- only to fix it. Never had to adjust the claw, always just motor mount and disc issues.

Anyway, I originally started this thread to point out that it had heads for 2-tracks, even though it will only play one. I thought that was unusual and wondered if anyone else had seen that.

**Shane C. Collins** · September 19, 2024, 08:02 PM

I don't much care for the closed film path on those later 800 Series Eumig's. The open film channel on the earlier models is a big plus in my book! I would imagine the chassis on the later Eumig's aren't much different than the earlier ones, but that's where the comparison ends really. The later models use cheaper solid state amps, versus the more robust tube amps on the earlier models. The condenser lens lamp assembly is also more robust, and brighter on the early machines. The sound heads also lift up automatically when the amp is turned off to play silent films. In fact, I use my 709 mainly for watching my currently shot Super 8 home movies. The single claw pin doesn't seem to effect steadiness on my 709 in any way. The system is well designed for both formats, although more in tune with Super 8 like all dual gauge machines. But, I would say with all the different projector brands I've owned in the past, the 709 wins hands down for its gentleness with film, and steadiness when projecting a movie. I might be biased here since I love this machine, LOL, but honestly its a well made projector. Eumig did their homework when they engineered this little guy! I'm not saying its the best machine ever made, but its definitely underrated for its simplicity, and doing what it was designed to do!

I forgot to add the early Eumig's use 2 lamps that stay lit until the main projector bulb is switched to on. Also if you plug the projector in and those 2 bulbs aren't lit, then the main projector bulb is burned out pretty nifty! The 709 also has a pre-heat feature for the projector bulb, the first one I believe.

And as you've mentioned in this post, the auto-threading on these later Eumig's can be a pain. The early ones load perfectly every time! I've come to love the semi auto-loading machines! I don't care for full auto-loading projectors. I've always had some sort of issue with them. Once you move over to a semi auto-loader its hard to go back, LOL.

**Brian Harrington** · September 19, 2024, 08:47 PM