Fast pull-down projectors

[Brian Harrington]

I had never heard of the "fast pull-down" concept until I read this:

https://mimundoensuper-8.blogspot.co...-compacts.html

A common characteristic of the projectors mentioned in this chapter two is that their pull down movement is very fast, so they have shutters with blades of up to only 40 degrees, which allows an extraordinary light output.

I don't have any of the specific models he goes into detail about, but my B&H 33SR is a pretty close clone to 2 of those Yelco/Yamawa-made machines he mentions: the Noris and the Fujicascope. I didn't use a protractor, but I traced the size of the blades on paper, and it is the same as my Elmo ST-1200HD, Sankyo 702, and Fujicascope SH-7. I do notice that these Yamawas produce an exceptionally bright picture with an EFP and only an f1.3 lens. Despite that, I assume that none of mine have a "fast-pulldown." Is that correct?

Although the author waxes poetic about "fast-pulldown" on this blog, I've read elsewhere that it can be problematic, causing excessive wear on the cam and claw, as well as an unsteady picture.

Here he talks about the Beaulieu:

BEAULIEU STEREO STUDIO: A LIGHTHOUSE WITH A CHEAP LAMP.

The Beaulieu Stereo Studio halogen provides more light than the Elmo GS1200. How is it possible, if the Beaulieu use the inexpensive 150W lamp, instead of the expensive and hard to find 200W of the Elmo? One of the reasons is that the Beaulieu has a variable shutter, which allows the blades to be reduced from 3 to 2.

But how does it get more light than the Fumeo 9119, which has a two-bladed shutter and the same expensive 200W ESC lamp of the Elmo GS1200?

The explanation is its ultra-fast pull down in the Beaulieu, which allows each blade of the shutter to be reduced to just 40 degrees, instead of the Elmo's 60 degrees.

I'm always on the lookout for higher light output, and the Beaulieu has caught my eye. But it wouldn't be worth it at the cost of a fast-pulldown being a problem rather than an advantage in the long run. Add in that I read (as I posted in the Beaulieu thread) that some models (maybe all) can't play acetate sound films! 99.99% of my sound films are acetate!

Fumeos look great, too, but then every b&w film needs to be lubed???

Out of the box, the ELMO GS-1200 is bright, but for a fortune you can get a Xenon, but they scratch films, and Van Eck discontinued most of those non-scratch parts.

HID upgrades are possible if you can find someone to do it, but that in and of itself is expensive (especially back and forth shippipng), then the lamps are expensive, and you can't shut them off until you're done for the day/night.

You can upgrade to a 250 watt halogen, but then you need an extra fan, and an external transformer, if you can find one, or "borrow" one from a hard-to-get slide projector.

I once bought a 12 volt transformer to upgrade an old machine to an EFP, but the light was too dim. If I remember correctly, I measured the voltage as only about 9 or 10 volts. The place I bought it from refunded me, but said that was by design. Although my mains was pretty much at 120, they didn't want people whose mains was a bit above to draw more than 12 volts. A lot of good that did me!

Or maybe I should splurge for an f1.0 Elmo lens for my ST-1200HD, which I heard is hard to keep in focus.

There is no perfect projector.

[Alan Rik]

Another reasons the Beaulieu 708 Stereo models have higher light output is that you have an adjustable shutter which can go from 3 blades to 2 for films at 24fps. That alone will get you more light. I have the Fumeo 9120 and can say that B&W films do not need to be lubed. I think that many of these idiosyncrasies that you are reading about are projectors that all need some form of maintenance. I had an Elmo GS1200 purchased new from way back and it never scratched film. But now most of the machines out there are all over 40 years old so they all need some maintenance. If you reach out to Steve over at the Reel Image ...I think he knows someone who is doing the HID conversions. The lamps can be expensive but generally the lamps will last longer than the standard halogen lamps. The GS1200 Lamp is good for about 25 hours I believe. The Xenon lamp is good for about 500-800 hours. I have an original lamp in my Xenon and it sill hasn't kicked the bucket yet. You can find some of the non scratchable parts from FFR film in Germany. Also the focus on using the 1.0 can be finicky but once its focused your good to go. It is one of the best 1.0 lenses out there. Once properly focused it is sharp from edge to edge. Not something you can say about many other lenses. The 1.2 Elmo is the sharpest but you have to be a good distance away to get a large image.

[Brian Harrington]

Another reasons the Beaulieu 708 Stereo models have higher light output is that you have an adjustable shutter which can go from 3 blades to 2 for films at 24fps. That alone will get you more light.

Yup, that's mentioned above in my post.

I was reading many posts in the archive about the Beaulieus, and I came to the conclusion to stay clear of them. They say parts are still available to repair them, but at stick-up prices. People mentioned they bought "serviced" ones that were DOA. And most have broken spindles since the original spindles wouldn't accept most reels! Who the heck designed that???

I've long maintained that now, in the year 2024, if you are in this hobby, then you need to be able to make your own repairs. I trust no one. And the thing is, there's really no one available to repair them. (Any machine, that is.) Perhaps you may want to risk shipping them overseas and spending a small fortune, only to get a DOA machine back anyway.

I have the Fumeo 9120 and can say that B&W films do not need to be lubed. I think that many of these idiosyncrasies that you are reading about are projectors that all need some form of maintenance.

Well, that info was from this very forum, and there's more detail in the post I created on the Fumeo.

I had an Elmo GS1200 purchased new from way back and it never scratched film. But now most of the machines out there are all over 40 years old so they all need some maintenance. If you reach out to Steve over at the Reel Image ...I think he knows someone who is doing the HID conversions.

The key word above is "new." I've heard that Elmos have a dubious reputation of being run to death in, ahem, theaters of a dubious reputation.

Again, I trust no one to touch my projectors. I've read too many horror stories over the last 30 years, including in Steve's "Coming Attractions" way back in the 90s.

My first Elmo ST-1200HD was bought "serviced" yet it needed new belts almost right away. It was missing pieces. I nursed it back to health but it wasn't worth what I paid initially, which if I remember correctly was like $400-$500, about 30 years ago. I later heard the seller was fairly well-known, and had a reputation for over-charging, sending people junk, then making excuses.

[Dominique De Bast]

I was reading many posts in the archive about the Beaulieus, and I came to the conclusion to stay clear of them. They say parts are still available to repair them, but at stick-up prices. People mentioned they bought "serviced" ones that were DOA. And most have broken spindles since the original spindles wouldn't accept most reels! Who the heck designed that???

My Beaulieu has still the original spindles. The only spools I couldn't put on them were the Supaspools (I had to lime the core a little bit). I didn't try (before liming) Supaspools on other projectors or LPU, so I don't know if that was a specific Beaulieu "problem" (was very easy to lime the metallic Supaspools).

[Brian Harrington]

Weird. Why won't some spools/reels fit on the Beaulieu? Not sure what you mean by "liming" in this context. thnx

My motto has become: "There is no perfect projector."

[Dominique De Bast]

Weird. Why won't some spools/reels fit on the Beaulieu? Not sure what you mean by "liming" in this context. thnx

My motto has become: "There is no perfect projector."

Sorry, wrong translation. It's filling (limer, in French) 😉

[Brian Harrington]

Oh ok. No problem. I think you mean "filing" though. One 'l'.

[Dominique De Bast]

Yes, Brian 😉 If I were at home, I would have taken a pocture of the tool I used.

[Brian Harrington]

Cool. Weird that you need to file down a reel to get it to fit on a spindle. But then won't it be too loose for other projectors?

[Dominique De Bast]

I bought those Supaspools new, so I wrote to them to report they didn't fit the projector. They answered that there are some differences between some projectors and suggested to file the cores. It workes perfectly. I don't know the why and how.

[Lee McCaffrey]

The projectors with 'fast' pulldown, ie fast enough to have a marked improvement in light output, usually have a nylon cam/follower. These tend to have more issues with maintenance/wear than a standard pulldown machine

[Brian Harrington]

Pretty much all my machines have those nylon cams/followers. I thought that was the standard.Unless I'm misundertsanding what a "follower" is. Mine have claws that have a piece on them that sits up against the cam, and kind of rides like a roller coaster over the hills and valleys. I make sure to lube the cam so those hills and valleys are slick and don't wear out as fast.

[Simon Wyss]

The plastic standard came with Super-8. You had already plastic parts with film projectors increasingly from the fifties on but only slowly and only here and there. Up to the late forties 8-mm. projectors were all metal and way better designed. Simple, rugged, practical.

I have found the light-dark ratio of 3:1 with 8-mm. projectors out of 90 degrees openings between 30 degrees shutter blades, times three. One of these light efficient models is the Bauer T 10 from 1956.

In the Super-8 realm fast pulldown exists but isn’t prevalent. What’s more interesting, in my eyes, is the fact that almost all Super-8 projectors have a claw arm that involves the claw tip(s) rolling across the hole edges sideways. Among the regular eight projectors we find designs which have straight pulling claws (example Eumig P 8) or such arrangements that slide over the hole edges in depth (all the early Kodascope Eight). Each construction has its advantages and drawbacks. In any case, a radially moving claw can have only very narrow tips since the Super-/Single-8 film perforation has already narrow holes. The contact surfaces between claw and film are very small compared to more robust formats.

A fast pulldown mechanism needs good lubrication, not in abundance but constantly flowing to where it’s needed. The Kodak Showtime 8 and its family (Sound, Hi-Mat, Analyst) has an internal air blower with the motor and a well made switching mechanism for forward-pause-backwards, yet the claw cams united in one Nylon part buried deep inside the mechanism can cause headaches.

It is important that the moving parts are accessible. At some point I think we must remember that 8-mm. and 8-S projection should not be overdone size-wise. Together with a strong lamp and a fast lens we can enjoy images four to five feet wide, not more. The last kick comes from a beaded screen.