Image problem with Eumig S810 D

[Brian Harrington]

I'd stay clear of sprocketless projectors. I have a Sankyo 2000 which everyone raves about, but I get an unsteady picture, despite many claw adjustments, and the "rubber band" adjustment right before the take-up reel that is supposed to absorb film-pull.

For dual-8 silent, I recommend the Elmo GP-E (and similiar models with different or additional letters after the "GP-": https://super8database.com/projectors/784

Why?

- It has front and rear sprockets.
- Changing the gauge of the sprockets and the gate involves moving one lever.
- It uses the still-available 150 watt EJM halogen lamp.
- The stock lens is a 1.3 Elmo zoom, compatible with higher-end Elmos like the ST-1200 and GS-1200 series.
- They are easy to get.
- The cost won't break the bank.
- The only likely repair you will need to make when purchased is to replace the belts, which are easy to get and relatively inexpensive. Of course, like all used projectors, it will need a good cleaning of the film path and interior, including a good re-lubing.
- It is rheostat-controlled variable speed from around 15-24fps.
- Rock-steady picture with excellent film-handling.

I'd hazard a guess that purchasing one plus new belts will cost less that trying to get the Eumig repaired. Of course this assumes that a silent projector will suffice.

The earlier "FP-" models are good, too, but the stock lens will be fogged up and un-cleanable, and you will have to purchase the appropriate Bolex lens that was made to fit their 18-5 Standard 8mm projector. Plus, you need to get one that takes the halogen lamp, like the Honeywell Elmo 380: https://super8database.com/projectors/5
I'm pretty sure some FP- models use halogen but can't find it right now. That's neither here nor there since the lens you get with it will be unusable. Stick to the GP.

Regarding changing gauges on the Eumig 810D -- I've been doing it since I was 9 and never had an issue. No "oops" moment for me.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Bolex, in Switzerland have Eumig spares (at a cost, it's Switzerland...).

Hi!
Bolex doesn’t exist anymore. Their spare parts storage don’t belong to them anymore. There’s only a license holder left for those willing to pay for the use of the „Bolex“ brand/logo.

[Dominique De Bast]

Bolex doesn’t exist anymore. Their spare parts storage don’t belong to them anymore. There’s only a license holder left for those willing to pay for the use of the „Bolex“ brand/logo.

What a bad news. Do you know what happened to the Eumig spares?

[Joerg Polzfusz]

AFAIK nobody knows this. In 2021 they still owned the storage (see photo on Insta below) and offered guided tours through that building. But in 2022/2023, the Bolex logo on the building got removed…
https://www.instagram.com/bolex.official/p/CR_nnnuDDGq/

[Brian Harrington]

What a bad news. Do you know what happened to the Eumig spares?

To get spares you need to get a used machine and ask if all the gates and sprockets are there. The most important spare parts are the motor mounts which Van Eck 3D-prints. That's the root cause of Eumigs with the rubber discs not getting up to speed. Yes, cleaning the discs helps, but if never replaced, the mounts will be crumbling to pieces. Replacing them and adjusting the control knob to properly center the motor between the rubber discs is the solution to the decades-long problem of Eumigs grinding to a halt while showing a film.

If you really want "new" rubber discs, find a used machine that looks like it was in a train wreck. The rest of the machine will be useless, but the discs are probably like new. (I've had success with this.) Then buy a machine from someone who used the projector a lot, has all the gates/pads and sprockets, but the discs are worn out. Now build a near perfect machine from the 2, after buying new motor mounts.

[Shane C. Collins]

I agree with Brian, having a spare Eumig machine is a must. I currently use a Eumig Mark S 709. The very first dual gauge machine made by Eumig. It's a beat of a machine, and ever gentle on film of both formats (Regular and Super 8). But, I also have a spare machine that I gutted, and store all the parts in a bin for future use. This includes motor, gates, etc.

[Brian Harrington]

The parts (sprockets, gates) are compatible with 810 and earlier, but not later (>810), right? The 900s are a different beast altogether and should be avoided (unless you want ur films pulled thru the machine by the claw, and don't mind a jittery picture), except >926.
thnx

[Ken Finch]

Re the Eumig sprocketless machines. I am intrigued to know how the mechanism worked. Have tried to look on the internet without success. Not found any details of the mechanism although plenty of information about how to operate it!

[Steve Lee]

Hi Ken,

Above the gate where the top loop sits, there is an arm made from a piece of flexible metal, almost springy tin, that has a roller on the end. As the film is pulled down through the gate by the claw, this arm flexes down with the film until it reaches its point of resistance, and then springs back up, pulling the film from the feed reel.
These mechanisms do not do any favors to film, especially to the sprockets, as they are put under extreme tenshion.
When I trained as a projectionist at what was the Rank school of projection, the first thing I remember being told is that the top feed sprocket is the most important, as it does all of the work in feeding the mech. And will be the first to wear out.
Why Eumig did this is beyond me, (we know money) as these machines have more gate pressure to stop the film from guttering, as it is literally being pulled in both directions simultaneously.

Steve

[Brian Harrington]

Eumig was not the only one who did it, and they later removed the feed sprocket from the early 900 series.

Sankyo 2000H and similar models are sprocketless.
A lot of other silent dual-8s did it too, including B&H and Elmo on some models.

I've tried several from different makers, and they all had problems with unsteadiness on the majority of films I've run thru them. They are crap.

That Eumig 610 and similar models also have too many moving part from videos I've seen -- all just to change the number of shutter blades for various levels of slow-mo. In the year 2024, who requires that? Who reguired it in 1974? Plus, it maxes out at 18fps which I don't like. I never tried one and never will. Maxing out at 18fps is an issue I have with my Bolex 18-5 as well, but otherwise it's a great machine if you have spare spaceman bulbs.

[Ken Finch]

Thanks Steve for the explanation. Not a good system. Far too much strain on the film perforations. I wonder how many films were wrecked?😉

[Joseph Banfield]

Re the Eumig sprocketless machines. I am intrigued to know how the mechanism worked. Have tried to look on the internet without success. Not found any details of the mechanism although plenty of information about how to operate it!

The entire Eumig sprocketless system is a balancing act or it does not work smoothly. That means if there is too much pull from the takeup reel you will get a very jittery picture, if too little, the same. The same exact problem happens with the supply reel when running in reverse projection. And because of the delicate balancing problem 50' and 400' reels of film tend to behave differently and you start hearing projector noise towards the end of 400' reels no matter how you adjust the tension for the takeup reel! It's just a messy system and in my opinion it's hard on film sprocket holes and best avoided. A projector with dual sprockets is the best way to go in my opinion and runs films much more smoothly than finickly sprocketless designs. In other words, a sprocketless projector moves the entire film through the projector by the claw with assistance from the pull of the takeup reel where a sprocketed projector gently feeds the film evenly and smoothly to the claw and the takeup reel.

On any sprocketless projector putting your finger on the takeup reel for even a moment while the the film is running will create tons of pulldown noise and a jittery picture will result because the pull to get the film through the machine that makes the system work is no longer there...a dual sprocketed machine could care less when doing the same and won't affect anything at all. Sprocketless designs do work when properly adjusted and it was a very cheap solution for dual guage projectors which is why it was developed since it eliminated changing sprockets for 8mm and Super 8 films. Was it good? No! Was it clever, Yes, it was friggin' ingenious!

[Brian Harrington]

I had bought the Sankyo 2000 several years ago based on rave reviews around the 'net but it still has me scratching my head how anyone could like it.

In the year 2024, there is no reason to buy one (sprocketless, any brand), now that I know what I know.

There's at least one seller on eBay who raves about these sprocketless machines and claims they're safer on film, when the opposite is actually true.

If you want a dual-8, there are various ones with both a front and a rear sprocket. Frankly, the only reason I bother with dual-8s is because they offer what I need for Standard 8mm, and for Super 8 silent when I want to give my sound machines a break.

Those old Standard 8mm silent machines were built like tanks but take incandescent bulbs that are out of production. Like I've said, you can try to convert them to halogen, but it is not as easy as people make it sound -- mainly because the halogen lamp won't focus the light properly on the small apeture of 8mm, and there is usually very little wiggle room to move the lamp back if necessary. You wind up with decent light for a small projected image, but you don't get the really bright light you'd expect. Plus, the standard lamp holders easily available to buy don't fit in all projectors -- like the Bolex 18-5.

[Shane C. Collins]

I had bought the Sankyo 2000 several years ago based on rave reviews around the 'net but it still has me scratching my head how anyone could like it.

In the year 2024, there is no reason to buy one (sprocketless, any brand), now that I know what I know.

There's at least one seller on eBay who raves about these sprocketless machines and claims they're safer on film, when the opposite is actually true.

If you want a dual-8, there are various ones with both a front and a rear sprocket. Frankly, the only reason I bother with dual-8s is because they offer what I need for Standard 8mm, and for Super 8 silent when I want to give my sound machines a break.

Those old Standard 8mm silent machines were built like tanks but take incandescent bulbs that are out of production. Like I've said, you can try to convert them to halogen, but it is not as easy as people make it sound -- mainly because the halogen lamp won't focus the light properly on the small apeture of 8mm, and there is usually very little wiggle room to move the lamp back if necessary. You wind up with decent light for a small projected image, but you don't get the really bright light you'd expect. Plus, the standard lamp holders easily available to buy don't fit in all projectors -- like the Bolex 18-5.

I also had a Sanyko 2000H at one point, and was not a fan! The lens alone was crap, and only 1.4, which is not enough light for a decent throw on screen! The contrast and sharpness on screen was also not to my liking. I never had unsteady images, but the whole projector felt like a toy compared to all metal constructed machines. I ended up retrofitting a Bolex hifi lens, which worked, but I could never get the focus to stay put. The lens improved the overall sharpness, and quality of the image. But, the constant fiddling with the focus drove me nuts, LOL. I ended up selling the machine online for a decent price.

[Ken Finch]

The Eumig P 8 series standard 8 projectors have halogen bulbs.