Image problem with Eumig S810 D

[Paul Adsett]

I agree with everything that has been said here about sprocketless super 8 projectors, and Eumig's in particular. I spent several years suffering the single (rear only) sprocket design ( and just to make things even worse coaxial reels! ) of the Eumig 926GL. This projector will give you just about the best stereo recording and playback you will find on super 8. The outboard recording and playback console is beautifully done and so easy to use. But that front sprocketless design will murder the last 50ft or so of any 400 to 600ft film you project on it. When the diameter of the film on the supply spool gets down to a certain level the supply film tension gets too high and the film will start jerking vertically in the gate and, in the process, deforming the sprocket hole in the film. You can play around with bending the metal flat spring which supports the tiny flapping plastic roller above the gate, but it makes no difference. If you have to use one of these machines I think 200ft is about the maximum reel size that will go through flawlessly.
Why did Eumig go to this horrible design as the successor of the brilliant 700 and 800 series machines. All the 900 models from 900 thru 929 should be avoided like the plague, even the 926 GL Stereo, which could have been a brilliant machine but for the lack of a top sprocket. As for the coaxial reels of these machines, its hard to believe that was an engineering decision, clearly a marketing one ( You can almost hear the suits saying " we want a projector that LOOKS different from anyone else's). Eumig corrected all this ill conceived nonsense, going back to established 2- sprocket and in line spools , in the later and far superior 938 and 940 stereo projectors. But even these two brilliantly performing machines are marred by cheap toy-like and overstressed plastic components which are nowhere near the build quality of the earlier 700 and 800 series.

[Brian Harrington]

I also had a Sanyko 2000H at one point, and was not a fan! The lens alone was crap, and only 1.4, which is not enough light for a decent throw on screen! The contrast and sharpness on screen was also not to my liking. I never had unsteady images, but the whole projector felt like a toy compared to all metal constructed machines. I ended up retrofitting a Bolex hifi lens, which worked, but I could never get the focus to stay put. The lens improved the overall sharpness, and quality of the image. But, the constant fiddling with the focus drove me nuts, LOL. I ended up selling the machine online for a decent price.

I think the lens is OK, but nothing special.

Did you just run Super 8 thru it? Super 8 was better (though not rock steady), but Standard 8mm wasn't on mine. I adjusted the gate guides side-to-side, and now it runs Standard 8mm sorta/kinda steady enough, but Super 8 not at all without a serious case of the jitters. I spent countless hours re-adjusting that, but could never find the sweet spot for both gauges. What made the adjustment harder was that the gate guides move when switching gauges, so you can't just put in 2 different pieces of film to check alignment -- you have to tighten everything up, then switch gauges. A real PITA. You would think that adjusting for Super 8 would take care of everything, since the sprocket holes are smaller, but that wasn't the case.

[Brian Harrington]

The Eumig P 8 series standard 8 projectors have halogen bulbs.

I was thinking about getting one once, but only the last model, I believe, had the halogen lamp. Same one as the 709 -- the mirror was built in to the projector. The earlier models were manual load -- which is what I'd prefer -- but not with those old lamps.

Plus, I think I couldn't determine what the max fps was -- if only 18fps, it wouldn't be for me. (Those super 8 databases only have info on Super 8 projectors, of course.) Seems like every projector was designed more with the amateur film maker in mind rather than people who collected hollywood-made movies. From around 1925 or so, playing silents at 18fps is way too slow.

Isn't there something funky about the film winding onto the reel different, too? Plus, people talk about the whole inside of the machine being "live".

So I never got one -- too much trouble.

I almost have my "dream" standard 8mm machine -- the Elmo FP (no letters after it.) I've had it a few years, and the bulb still works, but I have a junker Honeywell-Elmo FP-8 ready to donate the halogen-lamp assembly to it. The zoom part of the lens is uncleanable, but it comes right off and the prime part of the lens works fine, but at 25mm it produces a picture way to small for me, even at my throw of 20 feet or so. You can't win. The diameter of the barrel is so small that every lens I've tried to put into it doesn't fit.

It is full manual threading, runs films rock steady, and has a rheostat-controlled variable speed that goes up to 24fps. Pity those bullocks at Elmo used that bad grease or whatever that leaks into the lens. Plus they made it absolutely impossible to take apart the zoom part to clean. And I've tried using those special lens tools -- spanners or whatever. No matter now since my attempts have cracked the lens in that part anyway. At least the FP-A, etc, can fit the Bolex 18-5 lens. I hate when you get painted into a corner like that!

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I wish Super 8 had never been created and they stuck with standard 8mm. Too many compromises were made with Super 8 just to get that larger image on the film. And for people like me who collect packaged films, many times the Super 8 version has less resolution than the Standard 8mm version, since the latter is often a generation or more closer to the 35mm original camera negative than that of Super 8.

Bottom line -- there would be better Standard 8mm-only projectors today that didn't rely on out-of-production lamps. Too many machines built-like-tanks that are now for most practical purposes unusable. I'm so tired of enjoying one of them, then the garsh-darned bulb burns out and it becomes a doorstop.

[Ken Finch]

The Eumig P8 projector l was referring to was the Phonomatic with the built in loop synchroniser for reel to reel tape recorders. It was one of the most popular machines used here by amateur film makers before mag stripe became available who were using standard 8.

[Brian Harrington]

What's its max fps?
I don't need those sync parts -- no one does today. More moving parts, more to go wrong.

[Shane C. Collins]

Brian, I know your looking for the perfect dedicated standard 8 projector. For what it's worth I just picked up a Elmo GP Deluxe dual 8 silent projector. This machine was sold in the early 70's. The GP line is a spin-off from the FP line. Same belts, gears, and film transport is very similar. I projected a standard 8 film with it as a test, and it performed quite well! Very steady, and smooth. I have decided to upgrade the stock Elmo 1.3 zoom with a Elmo 1.1 zoom used on the GP Hi Deluxe. That lens hasn't arrived yet, but I'm sure it will be brighter and sharper. The 150 watt EJM halogen bulb is pretty bright. The variable speed dial works quite well, and the auto threading does it perfectly every time! This projector will be used as a secondary machine for my silent home movies. The Eumig 709 will still be my main machine with that Suprovar 1.0 it's hard to beat! I once had the Elmo Dual 360 which is basically built like the rest of the GP line. I really feel these dual 8 silent Elmo's are well built. The Elmo below is my machine. I added the big Super 8 sticker just for fun!

[Brian Harrington]

Yup, I have 2 of those actually. I love them. One I haven't even used yet since it looks like it was barely used. I use the Elmo 1.1 from my ST-1200HD in it, too. Very bright picture.

I guess I'm nitpicking since it is a dual-8 machine. Same with the FP series from Elmo -- nothing wrong with it other than nitpicking. I just wish either of them had manual threading, then I could "forgive" the dual-8 part. At least the sprockets change automatically, as well as the gate.

The GP became the SP, and from what I've seen of pics inside and out, the only difference was a slightly different front cover.

One other thing about the GP -- and this has happened to me a few times -- if for whatever reason the take-up reel stops, the film bunches up like an accordion near the second sprocket after the gate, rather than running out the machine onto the table or floor. I'd rather have it do the latter than the former!

Why did my take-up reel stop? I had eased up the tension too much. Plus, you never know when the take-up belt will break. The other thing is that you don't notice anything on the screen, since the machine continued to run the film fine for several feet before you start to hear some strange noises that is the film becoming an accordion. And I sit right next to the projector!

The GP I haven't used yet is actually a Hi-Deluxe but it came with the standard 1.3 lens. The only reason I bought it was for the 1.1 lens since I already had another GP. (Actually a Honeywell Elmo 380, which is the same machine.) I should have asked the seller to check the lens, but it was a BIN with a fairly low price -- lower than what a 1.1 lens usually goes for, so I jumped on it before it was too late. It came with the original receipt, which actually mentioned it had a 1.3 lens. I found that weird. Perhaps the dealer was discounting it and swapping out the 1.1 lens for separate sale.

I think in the Lipton book it mentions that the 1.1 was not sold with the ST-1200, and that you had to buy it separately. The various Super 8 databases claim the Hi-Deluxe came with a 1.1 lens -- and I'm pretty sure the manual that came with it said it had a 1.1 lens. So I was bummed to get yet another Elmo 1.3 lens to add to my collection.

Oh yea, the other nitpick I have is the plastic piece that keeps the film from coming out of the lower film path -- it always pops out and has a hard time staying in place. I've had to bend it into shape so it stays put -- but it still isn't perfect.

[Shane C. Collins]

Yup, I have 2 of those actually. I love them. One I haven't even used yet since it looks like it was barely used. I use the Elmo 1.1 from my ST-1200HD in it, too. Very bright picture.

I guess I'm nitpicking since it is a dual-8 machine. Same with the FP series from Elmo -- nothing wrong with it other than nitpicking. I just wish either of them had manual threading, then I could "forgive" the dual-8 part. At least the sprockets change automatically, as well as the gate.

The GP became the SP, and from what I've seen of pics inside and out, the only difference was a slightly different front cover.

One other thing about the GP -- and this has happened to me a few times -- if for whatever reason the take-up reel stops, the film bunches up like an accordion near the second sprocket after the gate, rather than running out the machine onto the table or floor. I'd rather have it do the latter than the former!

Why did my take-up reel stop? I had eased up the tension too much. Plus, you never know when the take-up belt will break. The other thing is that you don't notice anything on the screen, since the machine continued to run the film fine for several feet before you start to hear some strange noises that is the film becoming an accordion. And I sit right next to the projector!

The GP I haven't used yet is actually a Hi-Deluxe but it came with the standard 1.3 lens. The only reason I bought it was for the 1.1 lens since I already had another GP. (Actually a Honeywell Elmo 380, which is the same machine.) I should have asked the seller to check the lens, but it was a BIN with a fairly low price -- lower than what a 1.1 lens usually goes for, so I jumped on it before it was too late. It came with the original receipt, which actually mentioned it had a 1.3 lens. I found that weird. Perhaps the dealer was discounting it and swapping out the 1.1 lens for separate sale.

I think in the Lipton book it mentions that the 1.1 was not sold with the ST-1200, and that you had to buy it separately. The various Super 8 databases claim the Hi-Deluxe came with a 1.1 lens -- and I'm pretty sure the manual that came with it said it had a 1.1 lens. So I was bummed to get yet another Elmo 1.3 lens to add to my collection.

Oh yea, the other nitpick I have is the plastic piece that keeps the film from coming out of the lower film path -- it always pops out and has a hard time staying in place. I've had to bend it into shape so it stays put -- but it still isn't perfect.

Brian, not sure if you saw my latest post here? I was able to install a Bolex "hifi" 1.3 15mm prime lens into the rear portion lens from an Elmo. The results on screen are quite stunning! Now for the record the Elmo GP Deluxe will not replace my Eumig 709, LOL. That machine is in a league of its own. But, I find it's nice to have other machines around to play with!

[Brian Harrington]

I'll have to check out that post.

I also have a Bolex 15mm lens that came with my 18-5. The picture is way too big for my throw -- so I eventually got a Bolex zoom lens for it.
I tried to get a 20mm lens -- but the one I received didn't fit -- it was for the 18-5L Super.

I have several spare Elmo 1.3 lenses willing to be sacrificed. I'll decide if it's worth it after I read your post. I can't imagine it being better than the Elmo 1.1 lens, though. Plus, the image would be even larger for Super 8 since the 18-5 is a standard 8mm machine.

I need a lens for my Elmo FP (no letter after it) since as I've mentioned, the zoom part is uncleanable, and every lens I've tried is too big to fit. The prime part of the lens is 25mm, so the pic is way too small even at my long throw of about 20 feet.