when people complain because prices of used 8mm gear are too high.....

[David Hardy]

Although i own a number of projectors on Standard 8mm and Super i have a strong regard and liking for Eumigs of the past . The early Mark S semi auto threader series have always given me a good and reliable performance over the decades and even though i do not like full auto threading machines i have just realized that this year my Eumig Mark S 710 D i purchased from new is now 50 years old . In all that time it has only need a full service twice . The old girl is struggling a bit at the moment but it is about to get another full service and m.o.t soon. Hopefully it will see me out after that . I wish that bloody infamous Eumig hum did not exist though but i have manage to live with it . In fact i can't ever see a time when there be no early model Eumig projector in my home .

[Shane C. Collins]

Twist-to-focus is far superior in my opinion! I just never cared for those focusing knobs, very hard to get the focus dialed in at times. However, there may be a few higher end projectors with focusing knobs that are accurate? I've just found over the years, the twist-to-focus lenses on the early Eumigs are easy to get a nice sharp focus on screen! Plus they seem to hold focus better due to the focusing grooves.

[Brian Harrington]

When the end of the knob that engages the indentation on the lens wears down, it becomes hard to focus. That Bolex/Eumig I have (that I can't get working) has a near pristine end to the knob, and it has a smooth movement.

I just don't like the twisters when they are also a zoom, since in the dark u can reach to focus and touch the zoom ring by mistake.

From what I now know, I prefer a nice prime twister lens with a good focal length for my setup. I only have that for a handful of my silent machines, though.

[Shane C. Collins]

When the end of the knob that engages the indentation on the lens wears down, it becomes hard to focus. That Bolex/Eumig I have (that I can't get working) has a near pristine end to the knob, and it has a smooth movement.

I just don't like the twisters when they are also a zoom, since in the dark u can reach to focus and touch the zoom ring by mistake.

From what I now know, I prefer a nice prime twister lens with a good focal length for my setup. I only have that for a handful of my silent machines, though.

The nice thing about the Eumig Suprovar F 1.0 zoom lens I use, is the focusing part is at the front of the barrel. The zoom ring is placed behind, and makes for any easy adjustments that need to be made while projecting. Although, I try to make it part of my route to first get the proper width on screen before rolling film.

[Brian Harrington]

That does sound like as near a perfect projector in the 8mm gauges as you can get. Even those high-end Elmos and such have imperfections, as we've discussed in the pet-peeve thread.

I no longer care that much about 800 and 1200 foot capacity, although I do have many films on those larger reels. If the 709 only took an EFR 150 watt lamp, though! But as I've mentioned before, I have many 100 watt halogen machines with the EFP that seem just as bright as my higher-end Elmos with the EFR. You have mentioned that the built-in mirror of the 709 produces a bright light, though.

My 810D, which I only use occasionally, is still decent, but the focus mechanism, which is worn, as I mentioned above, is a bit of a pain. And even though the auto-threading can be finicky, my other projectors are less so.

[Shane C. Collins]

That does sound like as near a perfect projector in the 8mm gauges as you can get. Even those high-end Elmos and such have imperfections, as we've discussed in the pet-peeve thread.

I no longer care that much about 800 and 1200 foot capacity, although I do have many films on those larger reels. If the 709 only took an EFR 150 watt lamp, though! But as I've mentioned before, I have many 100 watt halogen machines with the EFP that seem just as bright as my higher-end Elmos with the EFR. You have mentioned that the built-in mirror of the 709 produces a bright light, though.

My 810D, which I only use occasionally, is still decent, but the focus mechanism, which is worn, as I mentioned above, is a bit of a pain. And even though the auto-threading can be finicky, my other projectors are less so.

Yes the condenser lens/light system on the 709 is quite bright, even with a 100 watt FCR bulb! Also the F 1.0 zoom lens helps a lot. In my current set up, I'm only projecting an image 3 feet by 3 feet on a vintage silver lite portable screen. Plenty big in a living room setting for my needs!

[Graham Ritchie]

some old advertising that I have

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Considering the inflation, so that the "new" $5K Kodak super8 camera price isn't that too far off from what it should've been back then, right?

[Brian Harrington]

Yes the condenser lens/light system on the 709 is quite bright, even with a 100 watt FCR bulb! Also the F 1.0 zoom lens helps a lot. In my current set up, I'm only projecting an image 3 feet by 3 feet on a vintage silver lite portable screen. Plenty big in a living room setting for my needs!

I saw someone selling the B&H version today for a bargain, but it was of basically the 712 Super 8 only with the 50 watt lamp. I had forgotten that Eumig re-badged them for B&H.

[Brian Harrington]

I take those inflation calculators with a grain of salt. Yes, mathematically they are accurate given historical inflation rates, but every item doesn't follow the inflation rate. The inflation rate hasn't been anywhere near 100% over the last few years, but many items have doubled in price. I'm sure there are many items less than they were a few years ago.

For something we can all relate to -- we all saw VCR prices in the mid to late 70s be over $1000, then by the early to mid 80s they were affordable and maybe $200-$300 for a decent machine. Same for DVD, then Blu-ray players. Inflation was not negative during that time period.

The inflation calculator tells me that the price of a MLB ballgame in the regular season at Yankee Stadium, the best seat in the house, should be under $100 -- but it is not. Try standing-room-only in the bleachers for that price.
Most people can't even afford a good seat now -- not so 30 years ago.

The price of going to a ball game, good seat, used to be just a few bucks more than going to the movies. Going to the movies is still affordable and most don't give a 2nd thought to the price. Not so to an MLB game. More like getting a 2nd mortgage on your house for a family of 4 to go and not sit in the nose-bleed seats.

In short, those inflation calculators are fun, but useless in practice.

No way a projector of that quality in 1968, if still being produced today, would cost $3500.

[Shane C. Collins]

I saw someone selling the B&H version today for a bargain, but it was of basically the 712 Super 8 only with the 50 watt lamp. I had forgotten that Eumig re-badged them for B&H.

The Eumig Mark S 712D is an interesting machine (the dual 8 version that is). It's loosely based off the 709, but uses that stupid 50 watt spaceman bulb. I guess Eumig decided to cut some corners with this one, and to probably keep the price lower. As you can see in the photos below, the same design theme is there. There's some differences but it's basically the same chassis set up. And yep that 709 (below) is Todd's just after its restoration was completed last year! She was purring along quite nicely when I snapped this photo.

[Brian Harrington]

The Eumig Mark S 712D is an interesting machine (the dual 8 version that is). It's loosely based off the 709, but uses that stupid 50 watt spaceman bulb.

Makes you wanna scream, doesn't it? Although I have 3, count-em, 3 spare spaceman bulbs I got on Amazon just a couple of years ago. They weren't expensive, either. May $35 for all 3.

Other than the lamp, what other differences does the 712D have from the 709? They also made the 712 for Super 8 only. The 712 series are easy to find on a given day.

[Shane C. Collins]

Makes you wanna scream, doesn't it? Although I have 3, count-em, 3 spare spaceman bulbs I got on Amazon just a couple of years ago. They weren't expensive, either. May $35 for all 3.

Other than the lamp, what other differences does the 712D have from the 709? They also made the 712 for Super 8 only. The 712 series are easy to find on a given day.

I'm not sure what the other differences are to be honest, since I don't have one to compare with the 709. It looks like the volume controls are different between the models. The 712 also doesn't have the two pilot lamps that light up when the projector is plugged in. Also it looks like there are 2 auxiliary plug ins on the front, which the 709 has in the back.

[Brian Harrington]

I bet another reason they discontinued that design was because people couldn't get the loop right to sync the sound. People were stupid in the 70s!

I never liked how Standard 8 took a longer route thru more plastic in the loop former of the 810D, but that's because I only used it for silent films. I now use a gate without a re-router. That longer route was one of my original theories on why Standard 8mm didn't run well on my machine.

Another flaw of a dual-8 machine -- it's harder to troubleshoot since part of the machine transforms itself when changing gauges. All because of the stuffed-shirts forcing the engineers to design something against their design principles -- something should be designed to do as little as possible, but do it very well. KISS. etc.

On a different note...
I haven't a clue why that guy on youtube called the Eumig 614 "the best projector ever made" because of that ridiculous design of the shutter changing blades on the fly. That stupid machine can't even go above 18fps!!! And it is sprocketless to boot! And silent-only -- can't be the "best" then. And how can anyone call anything "the best" unless they've tried them all?

[David Kilderry]

I obtained catalogs for both Eumig and Elmo projectors around 1980. I was already aware of the limitations of my Sankyo Sound 501 which I saved up for and bought new in 1979. When I saw the prices on the Elmo and Eumig projectors that I wanted, I realised that I would have to wait a few years and buy them used. I like both brands and each had some excellent projectors in their range. Now in 2024 they are relatively cheap compared to what they were new, but then again they are over 40 years old!